Lag

[myk]

In my quest for a better swing, I've heard some people talk about lag. What is lag? I've tried doing a search and had no luck. I'm new to golf and I'm having trouble understanding this. Can some one help, please?

Mike

[mikelz]

In my quest for a better swing, I've heard some people talk about lag. What is lag? I've tried doing a search and had no luck. I'm new to golf and I'm having trouble understanding this. Can some one help, please?

I understand "lag" to mean maintaining the wrist cock created during the backswing until impact.

It's the opposite of "casting" where the start of the downswing includes uncocking the wrists. Casting is the sort of movement you would make with a fly rod. This dude's wrists have some lag: Now we can read the other 100 responses. "Just keep hitting the ball." - Harry Vardon

[Leek]

There are a number of kinds of lag, but you can easily break it into two types:

Lag Pressure and Trigger Delay.

Lag Pressure is the oft mentioned "secret" to good golf. What it means is that you maintain pressure against the pressure point in the joint of your right index finger throughout the downswing. By doing this, the club must trail the hands through impact. It's best accomplished by the feeling that you never let the club catch up to your hands.

Trigger delay or "late release" (The famous Hogan/Garcia lag photos) is created by soft hands and keeping the right arm from straightening until the last possible moment (actually after impact). Done properly, the arm will straighten through impact and won't be fully straight until the hands are well past the ball. This type of "lag" can be achieved a number of ways, drag loading and float loading are the most common methods.

Drag loading is the feeling one gets if they drag a heavy, wet rag mop while holding it with a golf grip. The mop stays behind your hands and through resistance won't allow the mop to catch up and in fact will get further behind the hands as you move it forward. Many golfers who drag load often feel as if they are bending the shaft downwards through impact.

Float loading is accomplished by leaving some "slack" in your wrist cock up to the top of your backswing, at the transition and beginning of the downswing, wrist cock is actually increased, leaving the club farther behind the hands.

[Richie3Jack]

It's also usually easier to get lag if you have proper hip and shoulder rotation throughout the swing. For example, the belt buckle should be facing the target at impact. If you haven't rotated your hips that far throughout the swing, the wrists usually start to unhinge and you start casting the club instead of lagging the club.

So usually it's not just trying to keep the wrists cocked and is more of a function of hip rotation allowing you to naturally keep the wrists cocked on the downswing.


"Sustain the Lag" - Homer Kelly






3JACK

[jrm1493]

I think that if there is such a thing as a secret to golf this is it (if you read Hogan's 5 lessons he says this is it - calls it "supination"). Obviously, I'm not the best golfer out there but I know for sure that if I cast the club I will not be consistent at all. Just go to the range and see what the good golfers and bad golfers are doing. All the bad ones will be trying to scoop the ball in the air by putting the club head ahead of their hands. The good ones hit down on the ball.

For me, I think its easiest to just concentrate on hitting down through the ball, like its a snake on the ground I'm trying to kill. If I do that I can't make a casting motion. Usually this means I take a pretty good chunk of the ground and the main thing I fight is hitting it fat because my approach is probably too steep.

[tm22721]

"The Impact Zone" by Bobby Clampett has a good description of lag.

I agree that lag is the most important golf dynamic to learn, followed closely by pivot.

[myk]

Thanks for the responses.

Leek, one question.
When would drag loading be used during the swing? Not sure I understand that one. Thanks again

Mike

[Avid Golfer]

In my quest for a better swing, I've heard some people talk about lag. What is lag? I've tried doing a search and had no luck. I'm new to golf and I'm having trouble understanding this. Can some one help, please?

I've never liked the term lag, nor the term late hit. Neither of those terms are a good discription of what is happening. I like the phrase retaining the right wrist hinge better. While retaining wrist hinge starting down can do positive things (like store power, and shallow your attack angle) it is not a miracle cure, nor a secret to golf. If you're looking to improve your swing one of the the best things you can do is focus on sound basics: grip, alignment, ball position, posture, and balance. If your fundamentals are off you'll have problems getting the ball to travel to your intended target, and it will not matter how much wrist hinge (or lag) you have.

Back to the subject at hand... The picture mikelz included is a good example of a golfer retaining his wrist hinge on the downswing. Here are two more examples you can look at: Charles Howell III: http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/1...ngplanenb2.jpg Trevor Immelman (top right corner): http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2...ndfaldoqm5.jpg As you can see in those pictures the pro's back is still facing the target, the right elbow has dropped down near the right hip, the right shoulder is still high (the golfer hasn't dipped), the left shoulder has seperated from the chin, and the back foot is still flat on the ground all of which helped retain the hinge in the right wrist and shallowed out the angle from which the club will approach the ball.

[Richie3Jack]

Thanks for the responses.

I wouldn't worry about that.

If you start the downswing by first moving your left knee towards the target, then following by rotating the hips (not sliding them), which should follow a rotation of the left shoulder, which should follow the hands coming down and then should follow the clubhead coming down, you will have proper lag. It's when players start the down swing out of that order sequence is when they start to cast the club. 3JACK

[mikelz]

There are a number of kinds of lag, but you can easily break it into two types: Lag Pressure and Trigger Delay. Lag Pressure is the oft mentioned "secret" to good golf. What it means is that you maintain pressure against the pressure point in the joint of your right index finger throughout the downswing. By doing this, the club must trail the hands through impact. It's best accomplished by the feeling that you never let the club catch up to your hands. Trigger delay or "late release" (The famous Hogan/Garcia lag photos) is created by soft hands and keeping the right arm from straightening until the last possible moment (actually after impact). Done properly, the arm will straighten through impact and won't be fully straight until the hands are well past the ball. This type of "lag" can be achieved a number of ways, drag loading and float loading are the most common methods. Drag loading is the feeling one gets if they drag a heavy, wet rag mop while holding it with a golf grip. The mop stays behind your hands and through resistance won't allow the mop to catch up and in fact will get further behind the hands as you move it forward. Many golfers who drag load often feel as if they are bending the shaft downwards through impact. Float loading is accomplished by leaving some "slack" in your wrist cock up to the top of your backswing, at the transition and beginning of the downswing, wrist cock is actually increased, leaving the club farther behind the hands.

Wow. That made my head hurt. There are just too many answers to these questions.

[Finn07]

I wouldn't worry about that.

I think that is the best way that I would explain it as well. Let everything work like a chain reaction, starting with rotating the left hip to the target. If you can do that if will force the hands in a proper position at impact, and will create some lag.

[tm22721]

While retaining wrist hinge starting down can do positive things (like store power, and shallow your attack angle) it is not a miracle cure, nor a secret to golf. If you're looking to improve your swing one of the the best things you can do is focus on sound basics: grip, alignment, ball position, posture, and balance.

For some handicappers like me, the simple dynamic of keeping my hands ahead of the ball (lag) and my head behind it, is easier to learn than the complex dynamic of a perfect pivot. A pivot depends on lots of factors (rhythm, tempo, balance) that take more time (and feel) to master. In fact most of the pros don't even have a consistent pivot.

[Leek]

"The Impact Zone" by Bobby Clampett has a good description of lag.

Clampett is describing Lag pressure in the book. It's a great book!

[Leek]

Thanks for the responses.

It's kind of not a question of when, it's more a question of if. If you float load, you probably can't drag load. The truth is, float loading and drag loading to achieve maximum trigger delay aren't really all that important. Most golfers can't control them, and they make them spray the ball all over the place. Those are just two ways to accomplish maximum trigger delay- the lag people see in Hogan and Garcia's swings. It increases your distance, but requires a lot of talent to control.

Lag pressure is really important to achieve compression and solid shots.

[sonicblue]

IMO, lag isn't something you can consciously achieve. It occurs when you take the proper backswing (which includes hinging your wrists) and then use proper balance and athletic movements during transition, downswing and impact. I get very nervous when people say, "start by turning your left knee, separate your left shoulder from your chin, open your hips past your shoulders..." or whatever. Every person will swing differently and their anatomy won't always agree with these general rules. Someone teaching someone else needs to focus more on the goals and real truisms, and let that person figure out how they can accomplish those.

Back to the point: if you've achieved a good position at the top of your backswing, and all the things that go with it (proper grip pressure, proper wrist cock, e.g.), you will likely retain a good bit of wrist lag as long as you keep your balance and do not overswing with the arms/hands. Once you've done that, sure, you can work on REALLY retaining that even more, but maybe that gets you a bit more distance. IMO, the real reason you just leave it at whatever NATURAL lag you manage to create, is because that is repeatable. Whenever you try to force it, you risk not being able to repeat it. Some people have abnormal flexibility, some people don't.

I'm not a long hitter, generally, and I have a tendency to cast. I hit my purest shots, with maximum achievable distance (for me) when: a) I know I'm not casting, but b) when I'm not consciously "pressing" my wrists to lag, either.

[TGMTeacher]

There are a number of kinds of lag, but you can easily break it into two types:

This is wrong. There is pivot lag and accumulator lag. Lag pressure is pressure exerted on the pressure points from the lagging clubhead and trigger delay is delaying the action which triggers hand acceleration

Trigger delay or "late release" (The famous Hogan/Garcia lag photos) is created by soft hands and keeping the right arm from straightening until the last possible moment (actually after impact). Done properly, the arm will straighten through impact and won't be fully straight until the hands are well past the ball.

You can also trigger delay by using an automatic snap release, using a delivery path or wrist throw, and/or a standard or delayed pivot.

This type of "lag" can be achieved a number of ways, drag loading and float loading are the most common methods.

Drag loading and drive loading are the most common since they separate hitting and swinging. Float loading can be uses by either one.

Many golfers who drag load often feel as if they are bending the shaft downwards through impact.

That's drive loading. Drive loading accelerates the shaft radially which gives the feeling of trying to bend the shaft. Drag loading accelerates the shaft longitudinally which gives the feeling of stretching the shaft. There is no bending in a stretching motion.

[TGMTeacher]

For example, the belt buckle should be facing the target at impact. If you haven't rotated your hips that far throughout the swing, the wrists usually start to unhinge and you start casting the club instead of lagging the club.

The problem with that much hip rotation is it puts the right hip in the way of the right elbow. The right elbow has to move out and around to clear it - round housing. The right hip always stays back until the right elbow clears it.

[TGMTeacher]

When would drag loading be used during the swing? Not sure I understand that one. Thanks again

Drag loading is used by swingers. They drag the club down-plane and through impact as if trying to stretch the shaft.