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Phil Worsens His Lie

saevel25

By saevel25
in Rules of Golf

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saevel25 Incredible Member

saevel25

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Not sure what tournament this was at, not even sure it happened this year. Phil was able to smooth out the bunker because he claimed it worsened his lie, not improved it. The rules official allowed it. 

I am just not sure if he was given a better lie, why change it back? Maybe it was a mental thing, like he didn't want less sand behind the ball? Wouldn't that improve his lie. 

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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DaveP043 Incredible Member

DaveP043

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12 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Not sure what tournament this was at, not even sure it happened this year. Phil was able to smooth out the bunker because he claimed it worsened his lie, not improved it. The rules official allowed it. 

I am just not sure if he was given a better lie, why change it back? Maybe it was a mental thing, like he didn't want less sand behind the ball? Wouldn't that improve his lie. 

14.2d(1) says that when replacing a ball that had been lifted from sand, the original lie MUST recreate the original lie as much as possible.  Raking away the footprint did just that.  I'm not sure that the pre-2019 rules had the same requirement.  

As for whether the raking made the lie better or worse, I think it made it more predictable.  I doubt that Phil practiced bunker shots with a footprint right behind the ball.

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saevel25 Incredible Member

saevel25

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Just now, DaveP043 said:

14.2d(1) says that when replacing a ball that had been lifted from sand, the original lie MUST recreate the original lie as much as possible.  Raking away the footprint did just that.  I'm not sure that the pre-2019 rules had the same requirement.  

I guess, what would be the area that defines a lie? Is it directly under the ball? If so, then I believe his lie was not disturbed since he was able to place it then asked for the official to confirm if he could rake the bunker. 

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

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27 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Not sure what tournament this was at

Ummm, the PGA Championship.

image.png

image.png

@boogielicious wanted me to pass on "well, he is a civil engineer…". 😉

10 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I'm not sure that the pre-2019 rules had the same requirement.  

It was. See 20-3b: http://ruleshistory.com/rules2016.html.

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DaveP043 Incredible Member

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13 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I guess, what would be the area that defines a lie? Is it directly under the ball? If so, then I believe his lie was not disturbed since he was able to place it then asked for the official to confirm if he could rake the bunker. 

Remember P Reed being penalized for improving his lie at the Hero, in a sandy waste area?  He moved sand in the same area where Phil did the raking.  The difference, Phil was restoring the lie to its original condition as part of replacing his ball after marking and lifting it for the other player's shot.

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

Ummm, the PGA Championship.

@boogielicious". 😉

It was. See 20-3b: http://ruleshistory.com/rules2016.html.

Thanks.  And the rule applies to a ball in sand, whether in a bunker or not, so it certainly applied in Phil's case.

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Dave

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:footjoy:, :true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

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Note: This thread is 1643 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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