Specific question about draw and fade

[SwinginCaveman]

So I have been trying to learn to draw and fade the ball but haven't had much luck. I know my distances with each club and I can hit it straight without much problem so I want to learn to work the ball.

I've used the body alignment method as opposed to changing my swing as I'm comfortable in it right now and don't want to mess it up.

So I know that an open stance and opened face will yield a fade and that a closed stance and closed face will yield a draw.

I also know specifically where to aim. For a fade, you set up your feet where you want to start the ball and aim the face where you want the ball to finish and vice versa.

What I don't know and haven't figured out yet is do you swing your club along your foot line or along the same line you would take if you were set up square?

Logic tells me that you have to swing along your foot line or else the alignment is for naught, but it seems that I get a mean snap hook that goes 80 yards and ends up way off-center when I do this.

Am I just set up too extreme? I'm not sure how subtle the alignment changes need to be but I haven't had much luck so far so any input would be appreciated.

[mikelaw]

Clubs make a difference too. Certain clubs CANNOT be 'worked'.

For me, working the ball is more in my grip/hands AND ball placement. Weaker grip fades, stronger grip draws. I play most draws toward my front foot, most fades towards the center or back foot.

I grew up watching Corey Pavin and he worked the ball like a mad man. I overdo it sometimes but I love getting a kick out of people when I get out of trouble, go around a corner...etc.... It also makes the range a bit more fun for me as well! Have fun and dont force anything!!!!!!!!!! Just take normal swings !

ps- i NEVER open or close my face at address and i always get results.

[SwinginCaveman]

I don't carry any clubs that wouldn't lend themselves to being worked. If you look at my sig there's nothing there that screams "I don't curve!"

One other thing that I want to clear up before I go on, and I'm going to sound like a total noob for this, but it's always confused me. I'm a lefty, and some people have told me that draws and fades are opposite for me while some have told me that dexterity doesn't matter and that it's only the shape of the shot that dictates it. In other words, a righty's draw is my fade and vice versa. If someone could clear that up it would make my life wonderful.

It never occured to my to try moving the ball in my stance. I remember the announcers talking about tiger teeing the ball low to set up for either a draw or a fade, I can't remember.

I would think it would be easier to start practicing with irons, which is what I've been doing as they might be a bit easier to get down due to their shorter length.

My other question is where do you draw the line? Meaning are there certain clubs that are a waste to shape? I could see arguments both ways for hitting a 100 yard draw into a green, but that seems a bit extreme; though I could be wrong.

[Three Putt]

Clubs make a difference too. Certain clubs CANNOT be 'worked'.

What he said.

strong grip with 2 knuckles showing, ball forward in stance, and closed stance is the basic recipe for a draw weak grip, ball a little back of center, and slightly open stance = fade I have found that setting up for a draw is eaisier if you swing the club at the target (as long as you are set up for a draw as above), instead of trying to wrap around the follow through around your body.

[Trevor07Silvy]

If your a lefty, it's opposite. My draw (I'm a righty) is your fade and visa versa.

[Avid Golfer]

So I have been trying to learn to draw and fade the ball but haven't had much luck. I know my distances with each club and I can hit it straight without much problem so I want to learn to work the ball.

From reading your post(s) I think you have fallen into getting a couple of concepts twisted. The way I read it what you are changing is your stance alignment. When you want to work the ball you need to adjust the alignment of all your body parts (shoulders, hips, feet, and eyes). Your ball will not start along the correct line if all you are changing is your stance.

Here is the correct procedure for working the ball using the club face aim and body align procedure: Aim your club face at your target. Then align your body (shoulders, hips, feet, and eyes) at the farthest point you want the ball to fly away from the target. Then take your grip so that it fits with where your body is aligned. Finally swing along the your body line (which will provide the path necessary for the ball to start in the direction you lined up your body. Hopefully that will both give you a better understanding, and help you to shape your shots with consistency.

[SwinginCaveman]

From reading your post(s) I think you have fallen into getting a couple of concepts twisted. The way I read it what you are changing is your stance alignment. When you want to work the ball you need to adjust the alignment of all your body parts (shoulders, hips, feet, and eyes). Your ball will not start along the correct line if all you are changing is your stance.

That, in essence, is what I was trying to say. I set up to the ball where I want to start it, all body parts included and aim the club face where I want the ball to land.

The only thing that I had messed up is the order in which I did this. I set up my stance first and grip second. I'll have to try it in the order that you gave me and see what results I get. Assuming everything is lined up correctly, I just take a normal swing and the alignment does the rest, right? Thanks for all the help so far, guys. This is something I'm trying to incorporate into my game this year and I want to get off to a good start with good fundamentals.

[larlev]

That, in essence, is what I was trying to say. I set up to the ball where I want to start it, all body parts included and aim the club face where I want the ball to land.

So your clubface will be a little closed or open depending on how your body is aligned...is this correct?

[x-forged]

From reading your post(s) I think you have fallen into getting a couple of concepts twisted. The way I read it what you are changing is your stance alignment. When you want to work the ball you need to adjust the alignment of all your body parts (shoulders, hips, feet, and eyes). Your ball will not start along the correct line if all you are changing is your stance.

well said avid golfer. like you said, make sure to swing along your body line and where your feet are shifted. this promotes either an inside-out or the outside-in swing path depending on what shot shape you want.

[SwinginCaveman]

So your clubface will be a little closed or open depending on how your body is aligned...is this correct?

Correct. I might be exaggerating the closed or open face, though. It's gonna take time to get the feel down. I think it's a more subtle change than I've been trying.

[Jack_2251]

I never really open or close up but do it more with the feel of the release and the change it swing path, but you are probably just exagerating your alignment.

[tm22721]

This method of hitting a draw has always been inconsistent for me because my mind still wants to go for the target even though my stance is closed. Left eye dominance ?

[SwinginCaveman]

I never really open or close up but do it more with the feel of the release and the change it swing path, but you are probably just exagerating your alignment.

I would give that a try, but I just worked all of the kinks out in my swing and I'm hitting the ball better than ever so I don't want to go and undo all the work that I did.

I'm gonna be at the range in an hour or so so I'll give your suggestions a whirl.

[MrKadash]

There is no need IMO to make it complicated. I don't adjust my grip at all, I keep the same grip for every shot. If I want a draw I just close my stance a little and close the face, and make sure I come from the inside. For a fade I do the exact opposite -- open stance with the face of the club open and an over the top swing, if I really want to crank it right. Normally I just swing my normal swing and let the open/closed club face do the work. Depending on the degree of draw/fade I want, I always manipulate the club face more or less. I'm not on tour obviously, so take it for what it's worth. I can't hit it straight, so I work it anyways....

[SwinginCaveman]

There is no need IMO to make it complicated. I don't adjust my grip at all, I keep the same grip for every shot. If I want a draw I just close my stance a little and close the face, and make sure I come from the inside. For a fade I do the exact opposite -- open stance with the face of the club open and an over the top swing, if I really want to crank it right. Normally I just swing my normal swing and let the open/closed club face do the work. Depending on the degree of draw/fade I want, I always manipulate the club face more or less. I'm not on tour obviously, so take it for what it's worth. I can't hit it straight, so I work it anyways....

I have to ask...what's up with your sig? I'm not sure if its a joke or if you're really an Ohio State fan that lives in Michigan.

Either way, GO BUCKS!

[irspow]

I will throw my hat into the ring on this topic. Take what you may. I shape my shot in three steps. The technique has prove quite accurate for me so it may help others who are unsure how to go about shaping their shots precisely. I will warn you that it is not pga manual advice however.

1. Set up as though you were aiming at the apex of curvature. The point where the ball will be at when furthest away from the target.

2. Loosen your grip enough that you can rotate the club in your fingers to face the final target or where you want the ball to land, then regrip.

3. Rotate or move your feet and entire body until the face of the club points towards your apex point again. Swing naturally.

A little unorthodox, but quite accurate for me. Have fun making rainbows!

Tom

"Love golf, live golf."

[r7 425]

if you want to fade the ball (for a righty) do the same thing as you would for a cut shot but leave your hands slightly open ... best of luck

[Big_M]

I have to ask...what's up with your sig? I'm not sure if its a joke or if you're really an Ohio State fan that lives in Michigan.

to add a little balance I am a Michigan fan living in Ohio... although Toledo is pretty evenly split city-wise. Pretty soom I will move to more neutral territory.

GO BLUE! and off with MrKadash's head. back on topic... I agree with AvidGolfer's description... the only thing I would add is when I learned to move the ball I did it by first learning to hit an extreme slice and hook, then to dial it down. For me, there is a lot of feel in hitting the right size curve and it just takes practice. Also, your hands will finish differently in hitting a draw and fade... I'm sure you can google a draw finish and fade finish... but this just naturally happens anyway, you don't really need to concentrate on it.