Best Game Improvement Golf Books

[HankBlue]

FINALLY!  My copy has arrived!

 

[iacas]

37 minutes ago, HankBlue said:

FINALLY!  My copy has arrived!

Award granted. Let me know what you think!

[HankBlue]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Award granted. Let me know what you think!

First Impressions:  Definitely getting a BILL JAMES' ABSTRACT kinda' feel from the book.  [That's a good thing; I've been a LIFE Member of SABR since 1994.]  Separation Value ("SV") and "nGIR" seem to be very promising concepts. 

[phan52]

Anything by Bob Rotellla, particularly Golf Is Not a Game of Perfect. Because golf is mostly about what's in your head. 

[klineka]

1 minute ago, phan52 said:

Because golf is mostly about what's in your head. 

Nope, this couldn't be further from the truth.

Dustin Johnson could be terribly hungover and be in a horrible mental state and he would still beat me every single time I played against him.

 

[phan52]

3 minutes ago, klineka said:

Nope, this couldn't be further from the truth.

Dustin Johnson could be terribly hungover and be in a horrible mental state and he would still beat me every single time I played against him.

 

We are mostly amateurs here so who said anything about chasing Dustin Johnson? What am I going to get from an instruction book that I can't get from my local professional who knows my swing? But even with that, if I go out with a bad attitude I have no chance.

 

[klineka]

2 minutes ago, phan52 said:

We are mostly amateurs here so who said anything about chasing Dustin Johnson? 

I said that to prove a point. The physical game is more important than the mental game.

Since we are mostly amateurs, replace Dustin Johnson with a scratch golfer and a 25 handicap. The scratch golfer can have the worst mental day of his life and he will still always beat the 25 handicap straight up because the scratch golfer is better physically.

Bottom line, golf is not mostly about what's in your head. It's quite literally the opposite. It's mostly about your physical abilities.

The difference between a scratch golfer and a 20 handicap golfer isn't their mental game, it's their physical abilities. Someone isn't going to magically drop 20 strokes just by reading a couple books about the mental game.

[phan52]

1 minute ago, klineka said:

I said that to prove a point. The physical game is more important than the mental game.

Since we are mostly amateurs, replace Dustin Johnson with a scratch golfer and a 25 handicap. The scratch golfer can have the worst mental day of his life and he will still always beat the 25 handicap straight up because the scratch golfer is better physically.

Bottom line, golf is not mostly about what's in your head. It's quite literally the opposite. It's mostly about your physical abilities.

The difference between a scratch golfer and a 20 handicap golfer isn't their mental game, it's their physical abilities. Someone isn't going to magically drop 20 strokes just by reading a couple books about the mental game.

You really missed my point. By a lot. 

[klineka]

Just now, phan52 said:

You really missed my point. By a lot. 

I quoted and responded exactly to what you stated. You stated that golf is mostly about the mental game. That is not accurate and I shared a topic with over 400 posts discussing why your statement was incorrect.

You shared a book that you like, which is absolutely fine, but then you made a statement which isn't true and I explained over multiple posts why your statement wasn't true. 

Your response was two sentences, one of which is factually incorrect. 

What point did I miss "by a lot" ?

[phan52]

Just now, klineka said:

I quoted and responded exactly to what you stated. You stated that golf is mostly about the mental game. That is not accurate and I shared a topic with over 400 posts discussing why your statement was incorrect.

You shared a book that you like, which is absolutely fine, but then you made a statement which isn't true and I explained over multiple posts why your statement wasn't true. 

Your response was two sentences, one of which is factually incorrect. 

What point did I miss "by a lot" ?

How many hours a week does Dustin Johnson put into his golf game?  Amateurs don't have that kind of time. I am not trying to win the US Open, I am trying to win the B Flight at my club. I know I have the physical skills to do it and I go to my pro to keep my swing, I am not going to get that from a book.  After that, the best thing that I can bring to the first tee is the confidence that I am not out of my space, that I can do this. At that point, for me, it is all in my head. 

[klineka]

1 minute ago, phan52 said:

I am trying to win the B Flight at my club. 

That is shifting the goal posts, because you are talking about competing against a tiny subset of players who most likely have very similar physical skills to you. So in that specific instance, yes the mental game might be a differentiator.

You made a broad claim and tried to apply it to all golfers when in the very specific instance of golf you are talking about, you're already grouped with people who are likely have very similar skills. If you played in a gross tournament with no flights, it's going to be the physical skills that will be the differentiators, not the mental game. 

In the overall game of golf and in terms of shooting the lowest possible score (which is most people's goal when they play golf), physical skills are more important than the mental game. 

Think about it this way, if you wanted to improve from a 10 handicap and get down to scratch, you need to get physically better at golf in order to accomplish that, you aren't going to drop 10 strokes on average every single round simply by showing up to the course with a better attitude.

[iacas]

Guys, you're talking past each other.

The way I read it…

• @phan52 made a dumb and wrong comment about how "golf is mostly about what's in your head." This is wrong. Let's just put a cap on that, which is mostly what you two are discussing.
• @phan52 maybe meant something like this: "I think you should see a local instructor for your swing stuff, so the best thing you can get from books is mental game stuff."
• On the course, @phan52 might also be saying (as you seem to feel maybe just now @klineka), that in the moment, you're not going to improve your physical skills, but you can learn about how to handle some mental things, and if that helps you, it may be enough to separate you in that moment.

I'd elaborate on the first part (you'd do well to just admit you phrased it really poorly or something @phan52), but that's what the other topic does, so if either of you have any beef with what I've written above, take it to that topic:

 

[phan52]

52 minutes ago, klineka said:

That is shifting the goal posts, because you are talking about competing against a tiny subset of players who most likely have very similar physical skills to you. So in that specific instance, yes the mental game might be a differentiator.

You made a broad claim and tried to apply it to all golfers when in the very specific instance of golf you are talking about, you're already grouped with people who are likely have very similar skills. If you played in a gross tournament with no flights, it's going to be the physical skills that will be the differentiators, not the mental game. 

In the overall game of golf and in terms of shooting the lowest possible score (which is most people's goal when they play golf), physical skills are more important than the mental game. 

Think about it this way, if you wanted to improve from a 10 handicap and get down to scratch, you need to get physically better at golf in order to accomplish that, you aren't going to drop 10 strokes on average every single round simply by showing up to the course with a better attitude.

I would suggest, per the topic of the thread, that most here would benefit more from a Bob Rotella book than, say, a Ben Hogan book. We are amateurs with limited time and will never be scratch golfers anyway, no matter how hard we try. Course management and playing without baggage (like that water hazzard on the third hole) is what most of us need on a daily basis. Because, after all, golf is not a game of perfect. JMO. 

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, phan52 said:

and will never be scratch golfers anyway, no matter how hard we try

Uhm… So, you didn't read my post. Okay then. 😛

You should poke around in the other topic.

[mdl]

2 hours ago, klineka said:

Nope, this couldn't be further from the truth.

Dustin Johnson could be terribly hungover and be in a horrible mental state and he would still beat me every single time I played against him.

This is obviously true. I've always thought of the impact of the mental side of golf as being relative to your own physical skill. Like, it should be obvious that I can't wave some magic psychology wand and start playing scratch golf. But I absolutely can take a crappy attitude out onto the course and turn what could've been an 82 with a good attitude into a 90+. By crappy attitude I mean getting mad. Carrying the last couple bad shots with me as I set up over my next shot. Making dumb decisions out of frustration. Swinging hard out of frustration. Losing focus...

[iacas]

There's another topic for this stuff, guys.

This ain't it.

[max power]

On 10/8/2021 at 9:29 AM, HankBlue said:

One of the things that caught my interest about LSW is the author's acknowledgment that some "traditional wisdom" isn't so wise.  This connected with a personal experience I've had.  I was told "better equipment won't make you a better golfer."  BULL.  The best drive with my old driver was 220 yards.  I think I hit that maybe 2-3 times straight.  First swing with my new SIM MAX: 230 yard rocket, if it was a foot, on a straight line.  I was stunned. 😲

Some modern equipment is a little bit easier to hit than the old stuff but thinking that better/newer equipment will make you a better golfer truly is a fallacy.

[HankBlue]

14 hours ago, max power said:

Some modern equipment is a little bit easier to hit than the old stuff but thinking that better/newer equipment will make you a better golfer truly is a fallacy.

One minute my max range was about 220 yards... the next moment, it was over 230.  The only thing that changed was my driver.  Considering that driver distance has the best "separation value," I think it's easy to see that better equipment (including fitted clubs) can (and should) make you a better golfer.  The trick sometimes is actually knowing, in relation to your game, what is "better equipment."

But that's my opinion... and I've been wrong before....  I think it was in 1973 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by HankBlue