Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
IGNORED

GEARS Pro Data: Axis Tilt vs. Pelvis Sway (Shift)


Note: This thread is 1568 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

  • Administrator
Posted

I have 61 swings (29 drivers, 32 irons (two of which are wedges) with full club and body data of men and women Tour players (or former Tour players) in my GEARS system. I've put them all in a spreadsheet and with that, I can plot a number of things against each other. I'm open to soliciting and creating charts that show you any of the data.

In each of these topics, I'll present the data in a chart of some kind and share the data in the quartiles (min, 25th, average, 75th, max) as well as the standard deviation.

Here's one such chart showing the pelvis sway and virtual spine tilt at impact for drivers and irons:

pelvis_sway_vs_axis_tilt.jpg

The plot above shows the pelvis sway 1️⃣ for each player (for each club) against the axis tilt (virtual spine tilt) 2️⃣ for each player. Irons are in purple, drivers in blue.

1️⃣ Pelvis Sway is measured from a starting point of 0.0" at address to the amount the center of the pelvis has moved toward the target (positive numbers) or away from the target (negative) at A7 (impact).
2️⃣ Virtual Spine Tilt is measured as the angle (vertical is 90°) from face-on from the center of the pelvis to the center of the shoulders. Less than 90° would show a player leaning his upper body toward the target, greater than 90° shows the player leaning away from the target. Lefties are normalized to match righties.

The charts below show the independent min, max, quartiles, etc. In other words, the low axis tilt of 94.5° may not (and is not) the low pelvis sway (1.6") player.

Irons Axis Tilt Pelvis Sway
Low 94.5° 1.6"
25th Percentile 101.2° 3.2"
Average 103.9° 4.7"
75th Percentile 106.5° 5.5"
High 113.4° 9.0"
Range 18.9° 7.4"
Std. Deviation 4.42° 1.72"

and

Drivers Axis Tilt Pelvis Sway
Low 101.4° -0.5"
25th Percentile 104.0° 2.4"
Average 108.0° 3.5"
75th Percentile 111.1° 4.1"
High 118.4° 10.8"
Range 17.0° 11.3"
Std. Deviation 4.73° 2.03"

If you'd like to request some processed GEARS data, please send me a DM.

  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Informative 1

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Surprised at the lack of comments here.

It does not surprise me that-

  • more axis tilt from more pelvis sway generally
  • more axis tilt with driver
  • less pelvis tilt with driver

You see less upper body sway with the driver to get the axis tilting that much more I imagine-How much? Do you have the sway numbers for the upper body?

"The expert golfer has maximum time to make minimal compensations. The poorer player has minimal time to make maximum compensations." - And no, I'm not Mac. Please do not PM me about it. I just think he is a crazy MFer and we could all use a little more crazy sometimes.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
Posted
1 hour ago, Phil McGleno said:

Do you have the sway numbers for the upper body?

Yes.

Rib Sway A7 Drivers Irons
Low -2.6" -0.1"
25th Percentile -0.9" 1.5"
Average 0.4" 2.3"
75th Percentile 0.9" 3.1"
High 6.5" 5.7"
Range 9.1" 5.8"
Std. Deviation 1.68" 1.39"

 

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Hi Erik,

Do you have the tilt and sway numbers at other points in the swing? I think it would be interesting to see the numbers at address (for tilt only obviously), half way back, top of backswing, half way down and impact. Not sure if there is an easy way to plot them all on one chart. 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
Posted
1 hour ago, Ty_Webb said:

Hi Erik,

Do you have the tilt and sway numbers at other points in the swing? I think it would be interesting to see the numbers at address (for tilt only obviously), half way back, top of backswing, half way down and impact. Not sure if there is an easy way to plot them all on one chart. 

Yes. I have them at every point in the swing.

I could choose maybe eight of each swing (driver/iron) and plot them in a line graph so maybe I’ll do that. Send me a message if you didn’t already.

  • Thumbs Up 1

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Just musing here as to what the takeaway would be - driver has more tilt and less sway compared to irons because of more of a sweep motion compared to irons which is a more of a 'forward swaying drive down' motion at impact?

Curious as to what would these number look like for a typical 40-something mid-capper. Few random case studies would be awesome if readily available. 

Vishal S.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
Posted
29 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Just musing here as to what the takeaway would be - driver has more tilt and less sway compared to irons because of more of a sweep motion compared to irons which is a more of a 'forward swaying drive down' motion at impact?

Basically. 🙂 And as I said, it also shows you the ranges, and averages… etc. too. So you could see where you "fit" into that spectrum.

  • Thumbs Up 1

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 1568 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    Carl's Place
    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • It was worse than that.  Under 10 course handicap I think was NDB, but 10-19 CH had a maximum score, and 20-29 had a higher one (by one).  Might have been 7 and 8, I'm going from memory here.  When my handicap was low 20s / high teens, I had to look up  my course handicap every time I had a bad hole and adjust before I posted the number.  Now there's maybe one hole per course where that might be an issue, and I have the option to enter hole-by-hole in the GHIN app anyway if I have any doubts.   I remember reading a lot of Dean Knuth's writing 15-20 years ago, when I was starting in golf.  I liked the history of the (old?) handicapping system.  I really like the changes WHS brings with par.  I suppose I'm sorry he doesn't seem to like that change, I thought it solved a problem that had been irking me. 
    • Wordle 1,811 4/6 ⬜🟨⬜⬜⬜ ⬜🟩🟨⬜⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    • Couple of things. In the UK they play a lot of stableford competitions. 2 points for a net par, 1 for a bogey, 3 for a birdie, 4 for an eagle, 0 for a double bogey or worse. Playing to your handicap typically means getting 36 points, being 18 x 2 points. If your course rating is a long way different from par, then playing to your handicap would mean getting 32 points or 40 points or some such. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that input from the R&A is the reason for the CR-Par adjustment, which brings it to 36 points is playing to your handicap. A round of net pars really should be playing to your handicap. Now it is. Yay. I would think the people most likely to be upset about the CR-Par adjustment would be 6 or 7 indexes whose course is par 72, with a 74/140 rating. 6.5 x 140/113 + 74 - 72 = 10. So the "single figure" golfer who has probably defined himself that way for a long time is now a 10 and getting double digit strokes. Oof. I must admit I'm a 0.0 right now (sure makes the math easy) and if I play Bethpage Black from the blues, suddenly I'm a 7. That takes a little bit of getting used to. It also means I do have to pay attention to the stroke indices to be sure of whether I'm making the net double bogey adjustment properly.  I do think it's much less likely that NDB is applied properly vs the old system where it was max double bogey or max 7 depending on handicap (I think anyway - I know it was max double bogey at my handicap level - I didn't much care about where it changed or what it changed to). NDB is clearly better, but it does mean people either have to adjust it themselves accurately (questionable) or input their hole by hole scores (also questionable). I do it, because I care about it (and don't tend to make too many scores worse than double and also rarely play courses where I'm giving strokes back to the course and would therefore have max bogey on some holes). I'm sure there are many who don't and will just guess or assume. Under the old system, if I was playing a scratch tournament (which is most of my golf), I didn't care what my course handicap or stroke allocations were. They didn't affect my posted scores at all. Now they do (although the MGA and LIGA post all scores at their events themselves directly - something I am very happy about). That is a complication under the new system - one I think is worth it given the benefits, but a complication all the same.
    • Wordle 1,811 4/6 ⬜🟩🟨⬜⬜ 🟩🟩⬜⬜⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    • Good analogy Stinky 😜
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.