Big Break Ka'anapali

[Jeepthrills]

Perhaps the reason your wife doesn't like it... is that every time she looks over at you, you are staring wide-eyed and fantasy filled into the TV thinking about all these good looking young ladies.

My wife mentioned last night that she wishes it was on earlier. She has to be up before 6:00 AM and to stay up watching TV until 11 is not going to happen with her. I pointed out that they usually replay the previous week at 9:00 before airing the new one at 10:00. I also told her that I had the DVR set to record the season. I think I may have started to draw her in.

[sonicblue]

Perhaps the reason your wife doesn't like it... is that every time she looks over at you, you are staring wide-eyed and fantasy filled into the TV thinking about all these good looking young ladies.

All I got out of this was that "The Break-Up" is going on my movie queue.

[iacas]

The ladies are playing 6500-6800 yd courses, they aren't looking at 5700 yd executive courses, and they are dropping more birdies than bogeys at a decent pace.

Not sure where you got the 5700 yards - most club champs don't play those courses either. They play longer courses than the women (I think your range there is a bit off - it's not often they play 6700+ yard courses), to pins more tucked...

I didn't say they'd lead. I think they'd make a good percentage of the cuts. And what point would that prove? If they beat even 20 of the gals and didn't make the cut, that'd just make those 20 gals look bad. A local amateur beats the best women professionals?

[Big_M]

Not sure where you got the 5700 yards - most club champs don't play those courses either. They play longer courses than the women (I think your range there is a bit off - it's not often they play 6700+ yard courses), to pins more tucked...

Hey... what does all this have to do with the Big Break...

I had to say it... you called me out a couple times the last few weeks about going off topic.

[bogeyhitter25]

I love watching the show. In my opinion, it's pretty cool.

[Jeepthrills]

Not sure where you got the 5700 yards - most club champs don't play those courses either. They play longer courses than the women (I think your range there is a bit off - it's not often they play 6700+ yard courses), to pins more tucked...

I have said the same about a very good HS boys basketball team beating the WNBA Champs. I have played with some very good female college basketball players and they can hold there own in rec games with good male players. This is not a knock on female athletes. I love the LPGA Tour and they would all stomp me on the course. Men and women are built differently. The biggest thing I hear the experts say is that it's arround the greens that would give the ladies the toughest time on the PGA Tour. The rough is thicker and takes more strength to get out of.

I am also guessing that most of the ladies on the Big Break would beat me badly. Although Cirbie has yet to show me anything.

[tmoult]

The cirbie one is definitley different...

[dkglf98]

I think they lie about the actual distance they hit it to try and gain viewers. For example, I was watching and they said Ochoa hit it 330 yards and then I switch to PGA and the guys are hitting 280. C'mon, she weighs 130 lbs, I don't care what her swing speed is she ain't hitting it 330 yards and not further than the Men.

On Kanapali they couldn't reach the 200 yard grid with their drivers.

[sonicblue]

I think they lie about the actual distance they hit it to try and gain viewers. For example, I was watching and they said Ochoa hit it 330 yards and then I switch to PGA and the guys are hitting 280. C'mon, she weighs 130 lbs, I don't care what her swing speed is she ain't hitting it 330 yards and not further than the Men.

IIRC, they were into a stiff wind and it was raining that day, probably easily knocking 50 yards off their drives. I agree, though, Ochoa does not hit it 330, unless they mean on the range downwind. It's only on the most perfect of days that Tiger takes a rip big enough to send it that far.

[MrSandman]

Most courses from the blue tees are 6700'ish yards. At least up here in the northeast. A 7,000 yd course is huge.

I don't know many club champs up here who are shooting -4 on a regular basis from the tips. A 2 handicap just means that your 10 BEST of your 20 most recent is about 2 strokes over the rating (not that you average a 74, but that is your best 50% of rounds). Meaning that a 2 handicap usually will average closer to a 76 than even par.

I think that the women would kick the piss out of most local club champs (especially in the north, maybe not so much in florida and such). I think that would really open a lot of people's eyes about the quality of women's golf.

I've asked 3 golf friends this week, "How far do you think the LPGA courses play this year?" All of them have answered in the 5's, two have guessed below 5,500 yds. Meanwhile, we're playing the tips on a local course measuring 6,600 yds, and they are in disbelief that these girls are playing the same length courses as amatuers.

[Jeepthrills]

IIRC, they were into a stiff wind and it was raining that day, probably easily knocking 50 yards off their drives. I agree, though, Ochoa does not hit it 330, unless they mean on the range downwind. It's only on the most perfect of days that Tiger takes a rip big enough to send it that far.

The wind is the main reason I have not passed judgment on too many of them for their inability to hit greens.

[MrSandman]

They (most club champs) play longer courses than the women (I think your range there is a bit off - it's not often they play 6700+ yard courses), to pins more tucked...

Lake View CC - Par 72, 6,650 Yards Whispering Woods Golf Club - Par 72, From the BLACK Tees, 6,726 Yards Here are the courses the women have been playing this LPGA Season: Ginn Open - 6,505 Corona Open - 6,539 Kraft/Nabisco - 6,673 Safeway Int - 6,662 Mastercard - 6,911 HSBC - 6,547 Fields - 6,519 SBS - 6,582 World Cup - 6,385 The ladies rarely play courses below 6,500 yards. The LPGA are playing courses that are as long, and sometimes longer, than most amatuer golfers play when they tee up at the tips at their home course. I really don't think many of the local club champs would make too many cuts if they did this. The cut lines are usually around even par. You put a scratch golfer or 1 handicap at a 6,600 yd course with pga quality rough and shaved greens, they would call it a good round if they shot even par over 2 rounds. And I'm not talking about the best amatuers in the country. I'm talking about the best local players at random clubs. I think that the amatuers who are qualifying for the US Am and such would be very good on the ladies tour. Truth is, most club champs don't have a prayer at the US Am.

[iWALK18]

I keep hoping I'll run into Bri out on the course, since I live in the same town as she does... but no luck so far.

Tina to me looks like she was hot before someone hit her in the face with a baseball... and the intro of her getting out of the pool is so "forced sexy" its comical.

I was so pumped when Courtney sank her par putt. They edited that so well, and it was so bad-ass to pull through like that. Although i wish she would give the "my husband will be so proud" thing a rest... do it for yourself, jees.

Anyone notice the camera men really doing a great job showing us the impeccable hip rotation these women have in their swings?

[Big_M]

I keep hoping I'll run into Bri out on the course, since I live in the same town as she does... but no luck so far.

Her putt was nice... but I did laugh when she said something to the effest of "I just don't know what to do as far as lining myself up... my husband always does it for me." This seems to be very typical for the ladies (even on the LPGA)... for CRYING OUT LOUD... learn to line up a putt, and all the other shots for that matter.

[iacas]

I don't know many club champs up here who are shooting -4 on a regular basis from the tips.

Who said anything about shooting -4? I talked about making the cut fairly easily, not leading the tournament. I said this explicitly several times.

And you can cite my home courses all you'd like - the simple fact is that both are longer than the courses the women have played this year (and we're a lot closer to sea level and have much heavier air than some of the courses they've played) and that we have plenty of scratch-level club champs who routinely shoot under par, despite playing to fairways that are narrower than average on the LPGA Tour, rough that's thicker, greens that have pins tucked hard against the edges, irregular bunker conditions, etc.

I think that would really open a lot of people's eyes about the quality of women's golf.

As I said above, and continue to say, I disagree. I think the LPGA would embarrass some of their players by having some local non-pro guy make the cut. And even if he only beat 20 of the gals in the field that week, what would that say about them?

All of them have answered in the 5's, two have guessed below 5,500 yds.

I fail to see how the ignorance of your friends is relevant here.

Lake View CC - Par 72, 6,650 Yards

It's 6770. I need to update the section of the website with the new yardages (the ones we've been using for two years now - yes, I'm behind).

Here are the courses the women have been playing this LPGA Season:

Average: under 6600 yards.

The ladies rarely play courses below 6,500 yards. The LPGA are playing courses that are as long, and sometimes longer, than most amatuer golfers play when they tee up at the tips at their home course.

And as part of your proof of this you use my two courses, both of which are 150 yards longer than the average of the courses you listed?

You put a scratch golfer or 1 handicap at a 6,600 yd course with pga quality rough and shaved greens, they would call it a good round if they shot even par over 2 rounds.

How do you think golf courses are set up for club championships? Lake View maintains a speed of around 11-12, and amps it up to 12+ for tournaments. Our course has hosted the PA state amateur championship twice. Plus the extra 150 yards. The women would likely play from our blue tees, not the black tees.

Stimp ratings on the LPGA Tour are usually between 10 and 11. They're not "PGA Tour" fast. The fairways are wider (our average fairway width is 21 yards, and no, that's not a typo). Our rough is about as thick as it is on the LPGA Tour. I've been to LPGA Tour events. What they do is impressive. But so is what a male scratch golfer can do.

Truth is, most club champs don't have a prayer at the US Am.

I agree, but all that does is show how big the gap is between PGA Tour pros and the scratch golfer. The gap isn't nearly as big - or even exists - between the same guys and LPGA Tour pros.

[MrSandman]

The average length of the LPGA Tour events are 6592 yards this year. That is blue tees for most courses.

What is your club champion shooting at lakeview? Unless he is going even par for 36 holes (which he may be), absent a television audience, in no more difficult course set up than an LPGA event, he is likely missing the cut.

And like I said, I don't think this is likely to happen, just something I would like to see. I think that an average girl on the LPGA tour could step up to the blue tees at most courses (especially in the northeast) and beat the local club champion.

[iacas]

What is your club champion shooting at lakeview? Unless he is going even par for 36 holes (which he may be), absent a television audience, in no more difficult course set up than an LPGA event, he is likely missing the cut.

Last year he shot -6 over two rounds in very, very tough conditions. The average score the past five years has been -4.8.

Last year the Erie Amateur was held at Lake View and the guy who won shot -1 over three rounds. The wind was blowing 30 MPH that weekend and the course setup was brutal. In 2002 at Lake View, the winning score was -4 (still 54 holes). So yeah, they'd be making the cuts... Black tees for all of that, of course. The -4 was at 6650 yards, too. We have some very good local golfers, and good players have gravitated towards the courses I play.

And like I said, I don't think this is likely to happen, just something I would like to see.

But don't you think that even if the guy only beat 10 of the players, it'd look bad for the LPGA Tour and those 10 players in particular? Some non-pro guy beating women

pros ?

[MrSandman]

Iacas, I think if a guy who was considered a high quality player by people in the area got beat by 100+ ladies in an LPGA tour event, that would change a lot of people's view on women's golf. If a local club champ had to grind it out just to make a cut, that would open some eyes.

You follow golf a lot more closely than others. But most casual golfers think women are playing from their view of the ladies tees, and that they are just average golfers.

And I know this is never going to happen, just something I would like to see.


How do you think the ladies would do on the Champions Tour?