Stronger Tour: PGA or European?

[Big_M]

I'd have to say it's the PGA Tour. Having the Worlds #1 and #2 players play on the PGA Tour exclusively is what, in my mind, makes the PGA Tour stonger.

Uhm... I think Tiger plays some Euro tour events, doesn't he? But, both Tiger and Phil definately spend a lot more time over here.

We have to look at why the USA has not won the Ryder Cup since 1999 at Brookline- is it because the majority of the PGA tour members play in a bubble on target golf courses that are not very challenging. The Euro players play on tighter less forgiving courses week in week out where course management is at the fore- thus, when it comes to an inter continental clash the Euro tour players have the edge quite frequently. It has been noted that some of the PGA tour members, like Scott Hoch and Kenny Perry are reluctant to travel to British shores because the courses are too much like hard work for them.

Why do we have to look at the Ryder Cup in answering this question... it has little to do with it. If the US players are so terrible at playing a different style of golf, then why do they win the Open Championship sometimes. Also, we have lost the Ryder Cup over here on our courses plently lately... so perhaps team chemistry, desire and other intangibles are more the cause of the US losing lately.

Shouldn't this actually be "What is the stronger tour top to bottom, the European Tour or the Nationwide Tour?"

you just opened a whole can of worms... I think the Euro Tour is certainly above the Nationwide. The Nationwide is a developmental tour... enough said. The players on the Nationwide are good, but many are young and at a diffferent stage of their careers.

but then again this question isn't even debatable. european tour is much more stronger than the nationwide tour

agreed

Finally... I answered the poll as the PGA being stronger overall... and I agree with the reasoning you mentioned in the first post.

[michaeljames92]

agreed

yes i'm glad we could agree as a forum on this one

[GoingfortheGreen]

Is this is a real question? Easy answer - PGA.

I personally believe that if you are a European player worth your salt, at some point in your career you will end up playing here (for the most part). It's just a fact....All we need is to look at the young guns from Europe who are making a go of it here - Casey, Donald, Garcia, Ferrie, Jacobson, Stenson, etc.

Actually, I will amend the statement - if you are a foreign player worth your salt that plays on any of these tours, Europe, Asia, Australia, Japan, Korea, etc., you will make a go of it here. Not saying that they'll "make it", but they sure as hell will try.

P.S. For me the Monty story is befuddling. HOW can someone with SO MUCH TALENT (8 Order of Merits?) not win one itsy bitsy tournament here?! Does anyone have any proof that he played any Tier II events, a la Greensboro, John Deere, Reno, etc. or if he only competed in the Majors and Tier I events?

[michaeljames92]

i know this is way off topic but iacas i swear on yout posts it used to say lefty when now it says righty. am i just seeing things?

[ganjagolfer]

with the constant shellacking the u.s. ryder cup team takes at the hands of the europeans, it should should be obvious the european tour is more competitive

[Big_M]

with the constant shellacking the u.s. ryder cup team takes at the hands of the europeans, it should should be obvious the european tour is more competitive

Many of those players play on the PGA tour though... some of them play the PGA tour more than the Euro tour. Remember we're not talking about strictly US v. Euro players... we're talking about strength of fields at the events in the respective tours. And as such... the PGA fields tend to be much stronger than the Euro fields, partly because they are often filled with many great Euro players and players that don't play Ryder Cup such as Vijay, Ernie Els, Appleby, Ogilvy, and many many others (the other international player... not Euros or US).

[iacas]

i know this is way off topic but iacas i swear on yout posts it used to say lefty when now it says righty. am i just seeing things?

I vote for seeing things.

[gogolfing]

I voted PGA tour. depth of fields is just much more impressive. I enjoy watching some European tour events on TGC; they have some great courses and good fields, but in terms of strength, I think it is the PGA tour hands down.

[Ruari]

Is this is a real question? Easy answer - PGA.

Stenson isn't a registered PGA Tour player - when you see him in America, it's in the Msjors and WGCs. Garcia spends most of his time in the USA but he remains a registered European Tour player - he plays at least 11 tournaments on the European Tour, the Majors, the WGCs and the Middle east swing. Plus the Spanish Open and, usually, the Volvo Masters at Valderrama (Spain). Donald is primarily resident in the US - but Casey isn't. Kenny Ferrie is a strange one: he struggled to make a big impact on the European Tour, then went to America, went through Q-school and has been doing well this year. Brian Davis seems to be doing something similar, although he's scheduled to be back in Europe from next month, I think.

The Majors/WGCs can give a misleading impression. Players from all over the world come to them, leading people to think they're 'on the PGA Tour', when they aren't.

Actually, I will amend the statement - if you are a foreign player worth your salt that plays on any of these tours, Europe, Asia, Australia, Japan, Korea, etc., you will make a go of it here. Not saying that they'll "make it", but they sure as hell will try.

See above. There's no doubt there's more money on the PGA Tour - at the moment; the Dubai government investment fund has put a lot of money into golf in the Middle East and, now, into the European Tour. It's going to be renamed the Race to Dubai next year, with a lot more loot to shoot for and a season-ending tournament that will be the richest event in world golf. With the shifts in the exchange rates, the cash balance may move, too.

P.S. For me the Monty story is befuddling. HOW can someone with SO MUCH TALENT (8 Order of Merits?) not win one itsy bitsy tournament here?! Does anyone have any proof that he played any Tier II events, a la Greensboro, John Deere, Reno, etc. or if he only competed in the Majors and Tier I events?

Monty never played anything much outside the Majors in America. Any events he played were essentially about preparation for the Majors and WGCs.

Unless anyone knows better. I'm still working on the relative numbers for the 'average' tour events in either case. Interesting that you should mention the 'Tier II events' - that's where the real comparison will be, not the Majors and WGCs, which are jointly-sanctioned events on all of the big world tours.

[iacas]

The Majors/WGCs can give a misleading impression. Players from all over the world come to them, leading people to think they're 'on the PGA Tour', when they aren't.

I don't think I'm misled by that. They count for both Tours equally. The boost the Euro Tour's average "strength" more than they help the PGA Tour's...

They count on both Tours. I think most of us know that. The fact that you only have to play 11 Euro Tour sanctioned events (and 15 on the PGA Tour) alone shows another reason why the PGA Tour might be stronger. Players like Donald and Garcia who want dual status have to play more PGA Tour events. Beyond the, what, 9 WGCs/majors, that's only 2 Euro Tour events and 6 PGA Tour events to meet minimums.

[michaeljames92]

I vote for seeing things.

my bad.. im not sure what made me think that

[Ben]

PGA for sure, no doubt. The euro tour has some top notch players, no doubt about it, however when it comes down to euro tour guys playing PGA events vs PGA guys playing euro tour events, the euro tour guys don't match up.

The Nationwide Tour on the other hand. They are PGA waiting to happen. Now that's a tour with stellar talent!

[Ruari]

PGA for sure, no doubt. The euro tour has some top notch players, no doubt about it, however when it comes down to euro tour guys playing PGA events vs PGA guys playing euro tour events, the euro tour guys don't match up.

Outside of Tiger Woods, I can't think of any examples. Could you indicate some?

The Nationwide Tour on the other hand. They are PGA waiting to happen. Now that's a tour with stellar talent!

Wasn't the Nationwide moneylist won last year by a Welshman? I may be wrong but I think he'd failed to qualify through the European Tour's Q-school and came to try his luck in the USA. Good for him - he won quite comfortably and is now a regular in PGA Tour events.

Apart from maybe Brendt Snedecker, I can't think of any Nationwide Tour graduates who have made a big impression on the Major/WGC stage but perhaps you know of some?

[Ruari]

I don't think I'm misled by that.

I'm sure you're not but I think some people are - they see Stenson, Westwood and the rest on their TVs and think they're PGA Tour players.

Beyond the, what, 9 WGCs/majors, that's only 2 Euro Tour events and 6 PGA Tour events to meet minimums.

If we exclude the World Cup then it's 7 Majors/WGCs. So four for Europe and nine for the US. Tiger could be on both if he'd play another two on the European Tour. I wonder if he'll be tempted by the Dubai Championship, which will be worth several bundles of booty.

Come to think of it, Mickelson only needs to play another two, too. WE shall see next year. At the moment, at the top end, the PGA Tour - with its international players is definitely stronger - it's stupid to think otherwise. But the numbers below the front tank are beginning to look interesting. It just takes such a long time!

[hawkeye]

I voted European Tour. Not that I believe it

I guess by strength you are talking about the players and/or quality of golf? It's all about watching golf and enjoying it at most of our levels - I watch both tours ; the PGA Tour has less charachters and more robots. Hence the better golf :)

Given a choice of tours to play for a year, i'd prefer the European Tour - you get to see the world!

[iacas]

Apart from maybe Brendt Snedecker, I can't think of any Nationwide Tour graduates who have made a big impression on the Major/WGC stage but perhaps you know of some?

Let's not get off-topic. The Nationwide vs. European Tour discussion has happened before and will likely happen again. This is not the place.

P.S. I can think of a guy who WON a major within the last 55 weeks...

[Big_M]

I voted European Tour. Not that I believe it

Way to skew the results...

Given a choice of tours to play for a year, i'd prefer the European Tour - you get to see the world!

I suppose that would be a nice little bonus to the European Tour... But don't underestimate how fun it would be to just travel the United States. We have some pretty interesting cities, National parks, museums, and otherwise.

I do think the European Tour would probably be a little more interesting to travel for an American, but for someone who has already traveled Europe I would think the opposite would hold true.

the PGA Tour has less charachters and more robots.

I always thought it was the other way around. I think the PGA has more colorful characters than does the European Tour... especially since as has been stated, many maintain cards on both.

I mean personality wise... c'mon we've got... Boo Weekley Tiger Phil Woody Austin Zach Johnson ***none of these guys are anything alike... so robots??? What does the European Tour have... a couple guys who dress like circus performers to make up for their personality. (joking a little bit here) But, seriously I think both tours have plenty of personality, and I don't think the European Tour or players themselves have any sort of monopoly on this.

[iacas]

I'm fairly certain "color" and "clothing" and "scenery" have little to do with "strength." C'mon guys... topic is strength, not "interest" or "which I'd rather play on".