I Think My Lofts are Messed Up

[StuM]

When setting up my bag for Shot Scope it asked for lofts on my Hybrids.  My Cleveland Hi-Bore 3 has 22* marked on it so I knew that was 22*.  My Mizuno JPX Fi-Hi 4, 5 *& 6 had no markings so I did a web search.  Per Mizuno Golf, the 4 = 20*, 5 = 22.5* and 6 = 25*.   I am now questioning the clubs in my bag.

JPX Fli-Hi - Mizuno Golf USA

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Discover the JPX Fli-Hi - The Precision Hybrid - Official Mizuno Golf USA.

Does is seem correct that Cleveland vs Mizuno would have such different lofts?  Currently I carry only 13 clubs so I can add a club even if not pulling one out.  I do not carry any fairway woods.  Any thoughts on what loft I should consider adding?

I am thinking to leave the Cleveland in for a while until I get more Shot Scope data then determine what club should be pulled.  I also need to start hitting my Mizuno 4 on the longer shots and see what that gives me.

 

 

 

[billchao]

There’s no industry standard for club number and loft, so it’s not surprising that your Cleveland 3h is different than what an equivalent Mizuno 3h would be. Different club head designs affect launch characteristics that will dictate what loft a manufacturer puts on it.

Are they newer clubs? I would think you might have some idea how far you hit them already and if some clubs might overlap. I used to play a 4h and a 4i, but the 4h played to 3i distance so that’s why I carried both. Now I carry a 2h as my only hybrid because it splits the gap between my 3w and my 4i more evenly and I don’t need precise gapping at that end of the bag anyway.

[StuM]

28 minutes ago, billchao said:

There’s no industry standard for club number and loft, so it’s not surprising that your Cleveland 3h is different than what an equivalent Mizuno 3h would be. Different club head designs affect launch characteristics that will dictate what loft a manufacturer puts on it.

Are they newer clubs? I would think you might have some idea how far you hit them already and if some clubs might overlap. I used to play a 4h and a 4i, but the 4h played to 3i distance so that’s why I carried both. Now I carry a 2h as my only hybrid because it splits the gap between my 3w and my 4i more evenly and I don’t need precise gapping at that end of the bag anyway.

The Cleveland is real old, 2008.  The Mizuno's are a little newer but not new, I do not recall when but maybe @ 2012.  Before anyone says it, I know I can get new clubs, but I feel my swing is the bigger issue, not the equipment, and I feel comfortable with them.  I feel my 6H is @ 175, 5H @ 185/190 and Cleveland 3H @ 200 but can occasionally go 225.  I really do not hit my 4H often. I guess my thinking was why hit 4H when my 3H is only a little more than my 5H.  

GG shows my Cleveland 3H with an average of @ 175 but I use it on a lot of punch shots (I live in the trees) so that, along with mishits, skews the average  GG shows my Mizuno 4H avg as 166, 5H avg = 161 and 6H = 167 but all include a lot of mishits/punch shots. Per GG, my longest shots are 3H = 235, 4H = 216, 5H = 205 and 6H =  200 .  Below is a screen shot of my GG Data

Edited August 2, 2022 by StuM
Changes screen shot for better viewing.

[Shindig]

I had a similar issue that I only discovered 2-3 weeks ago.  For, evidently, about five years , I was using a set with a 23.5 degree 5-iron and a (different manufacturer) 23 degree 4H, and the two had significant overlap in distances.  I had a 20 degree hybrid from the same manufacturer as the first hybrid, but for whatever reason, I decided to go get a 19 degree from Titleist (more or less the same one I was fit for, but didn't buy, when I was fit for my 4W four years ago).   I am debating getting a 21 or 22 degree hybrid to fill the gap, but, like @billchao, I'm not sure I need that much precision at that end of the bag.

[Big Lex]

I don't find it unusual or surprising that you'd get numbers which seem superficially "wrong" when judging by the manufacturers' stated lofts. I think for the reasons @billchao stated, loft numbers are really only useful in a relative sense, meaning within one club head line or design family, definitely not across brands. 

[StuM]

So @Big Lexand @billchao, are you saying I should somewhat ignore the loft from the manufacturer and assume a 3H from Cleveland should be longer than a  4H from Mizuno?  Part of my issue is I am so inconsistent that my distances are all over the place to begin with, so may be a moot point. 

In addition to Loft, the Cleveland is a standard shaft while my Mizuno's are 1/2" longer,  Both are "Regular Flex" but different brands so maybe a slight difference.

I've been happy with the clubs and, as long as I hit them well, have sufficient distance between my driver & hybrids to be close enough for makeable 3rd shots into a Par 5 for GIR.

[Shindig]

1 minute ago, StuM said:

So @Big Lexand @billchao, are you saying I should somewhat ignore the loft from the manufacturer and assume a 3H from Cleveland should be longer than a  4H from Mizuno?  Part of my issue is I am so inconsistent that my distances are all over the place to begin with, so may be a moot point. 

In addition to Loft, the Cleveland is a standard shaft while my Mizuno's are 1/2" longer,  Both are "Regular Flex" but different brands so maybe a slight difference.

I've been happy with the clubs and, as long as I hit them well, have sufficient distance between my driver & hybrids to be close enough for makeable 3rd shots into a Par 5 for GIR.

I'd hope that stamped lofts would be comparable, but not the "which iron is this?" marker.  This is true for irons also -- I've seen 6-irons range from 25 to 35 degrees, for example.  One club company put lofts on their irons a few years ago, but it didn't catch on, which I view as too bad (I liked the idea). 

Shaft length makes a difference -- if you're swinging your body at the same pace, something half an inch further away from you being swung around you will go that much faster (this is a vast simplification).  Of course, further from you makes it marginally tougher to make good contact.  

Flex varies vastly between manufacturers.  The weight of the shaft matters, too. 

[Big Lex]

34 minutes ago, StuM said:

So @Big Lexand @billchao, are you saying I should somewhat ignore the loft from the manufacturer and assume a 3H from Cleveland should be longer than a  4H from Mizuno? 

Not exactly. I was saying in general the relationship between loft and distance isn't comparable between different club brands, and probably not comparable between different club designs/lines within the same manufucturer. However, you can't assume that the Cleveland will be longer than the Mizuno, or longer than a Taylor Made, or whatever. Brand X's 3H at 20* loft may be shorter than Brand Y's model 4H at 22* loft, or vice versa. But Brand X's 3H should be longer than Brand X's 4H in the same product class, because of loft differences partially, but also......

34 minutes ago, StuM said:

In addition to Loft, the Cleveland is a standard shaft while my Mizuno's are 1/2" longer,  Both are "Regular Flex" but different brands so maybe a slight difference.

.....other factors besides loft affect distance. Alot, I am sure. I'm not an engineer or club designer, but the length of the club, the overall weight, the head design, shaft flex, the degree of spring-like effect of the face, the rate with which you are able to make center-face contact, etc. etc., will all affect how far you hit a given club. 

Been there, done that, regarding inconsistent contact which makes it hard to know sometimes what club to carry in your bag. 

I used to want alot of clubs in my bag for these longer distances...thinking I needed to cover every gap of 15 yards or so between my driver and my 5 iron. 

Over the years I started eliminating clubs from the bag, though. I just don't find in practice that it is that useful to me to have, say, a Driver, 3-wood, 2 hybrids, and a 4 iron, as I used to carry. I found a couple of hybrids I hit better than other clubs and so I eliminated the 3 wood. The only decision I make is whether to carry 2 hybrids or carry 1 hybrid and a 4 iron. 

Take my advice for what it's worth as a middling handicapper, but if you were asking for a recommendation, I would say to base your decision of what to carry predominantly on the quality of striking, not the distance per se. In other words, carry the club(s) you hit well, in the center of the face, most often. If it is longer or shorter than what you need for a given shot, that isn't going to hurt you as much as trying to have another club to cover a distance, but which you don't hit solidly enough for it to perform for you. 

[StuM]

6 minutes ago, Big Lex said:

Not exactly. I was saying in general the relationship between loft and distance isn't comparable between different club brands, and probably not comparable between different club designs/lines within the same manufucturer. However, you can't assume that the Cleveland will be longer than the Mizuno, or longer than a Taylor Made, or whatever. Brand X's 3H at 20* loft may be shorter than Brand Y's model 4H at 22* loft, or vice versa. But Brand X's 3H should be longer than Brand X's 4H in the same product class, because of loft differences partially, but also......

That is what I originally thought.  Thanks for the clarification.

 

6 minutes ago, Big Lex said:

In other words, carry the club(s) you hit well, in the center of the face, most often. If it is longer or shorter than what you need for a given shot, that isn't going to hurt you as much as trying to have another club to cover a distance, but which you don't hit solidly enough for it to perform for you. 

That sounds to be good advice.  So I should only carry my Putter? 😜