Clarification of Caddie Rule(s)

[Iceman2]

Today I played in a pennant match play event . On the 11th hole my opponent who was using a golf cart was joined by a person from his team   and did not inform me during the play of the hole that he was caddying for him. I think that he should lose that hole and any others he played before informing me that he was caddying for him. Am I correct as I can’t find it in the rule book.

[jlbos83]

Here's the definition of "caddie" according to the USGA.  

Caddie

Someone who helps a player during a round, including in these ways:

• Carrying, Transporting or Handling Clubs: A person who carries, transports (such as by cart or trolley) or handles a player’s clubs during play is the player’s caddie even if not named as a caddie by the player, except when done to move the player’s clubs, bag or cart out of the way or as a courtesy (such as getting a club the player left behind).

• Giving Advice: A player’s caddie is the only person (other than a partner or partner’s caddie) a player may ask for advice.

A caddie may also help the player in other ways allowed by the Rules (see Rule 10.3b).

It sounds to me that as soon as the other guy acted as a caaddie, he was a caddie, and no declaration of such is required.

 

 

[DaveP043]

16 hours ago, Iceman2 said:

I can’t find it in the rule book.

As a general rule, if the rules don't say you are NOT allowed, then you ARE allowed.  The Rules don't specifically require a Player to inform his Opponent that he's added a caddie.  10.3a(1) does say:

"Whether or not the player has a caddie, any other person who walks or rides along with the player or who carries other things for the player (such as a rain-suit, umbrella or food and drink) is not the player’s caddie unless they are named as such by the player or also carries, transports or handles the player’s clubs."

There seems to be a requirement for a player to "name" that other person as his Caddie, however, there's no penalty associated with NOT naming him.  You could claim that your Opponent asked for or received Advice from someone who was NOT his caddie, but you would have to make that appeal immediately.  Once you begin a new hole, its too late to make any claim for an infraction on a previous hole in Match Play.  The terminology is that you must "request a ruling".  If you did that, your Opponent would (logically) immediately name that person as his Caddie, so at most you might win 1 hole based on a timely request for a ruling.

 

[jlbos83]

3 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

As a general rule, if the rules don't say you are NOT allowed, then you ARE allowed.  The Rules don't specifically require a Player to inform his Opponent that he's added a caddie.  10.3a(1) does say:

"Whether or not the player has a caddie, any other person who walks or rides along with the player or who carries other things for the player (such as a rain-suit, umbrella or food and drink) is not the player’s caddie unless they are named as such by the player or also carries, transports or handles the player’s clubs."

There seems to be a requirement for a player to "name" that other person as his Caddie, however, there's no penalty associated with NOT naming him.  You could claim that your Opponent asked for or received Advice from someone who was NOT his caddie, but you would have to make that appeal immediately.  Once you begin a new hole, its too late to make any claim for an infraction on a previous hole in Match Play.  The terminology is that you must "request a ruling".  If you did that, your Opponent would (logically) immediately name that person as his Caddie, so at most you might win 1 hole based on a timely request for a ruling.

 

It seems that the USGA could reconcile the Definition and the Rule!

A person who carries, transports (such as by cart or trolley) or handles a player’s clubs during play is the player’s caddie even if not named as a caddie by the player, except when done to move the player’s clubs, bag or cart out of the way or as a courtesy (such as getting a club the player left behind).

and:

Whether or not the player has a caddie, any other person who walks or rides along with the player or who carries other things for the player (such as a rain-suit, umbrella or food and drink) is not the player’s caddie unless they are named as such by the player or also carries, transports or handles the player’s clubs.

don't line up very well, at least to me!

 

[Missouri Swede]

17 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

As a general rule, if the rules don't say you are NOT allowed, then you ARE allowed.  The Rules don't specifically require a Player to inform his Opponent that he's added a caddie.  10.3a(1) does say:

"Whether or not the player has a caddie, any other person who walks or rides along with the player or who carries other things for the player (such as a rain-suit, umbrella or food and drink) is not the player’s caddie unless they are named as such by the player or also carries, transports or handles the player’s clubs."

There seems to be a requirement for a player to "name" that other person as his Caddie, however, there's no penalty associated with NOT naming him.  You could claim that your Opponent asked for or received Advice from someone who was NOT his caddie, but you would have to make that appeal immediately.  Once you begin a new hole, its too late to make any claim for an infraction on a previous hole in Match Play.  The terminology is that you must "request a ruling".  If you did that, your Opponent would (logically) immediately name that person as his Caddie, so at most you might win 1 hole based on a timely request for a ruling.

 

So “any other person … is not the player’s caddie unless they are”:

a. named as such by the player

—OR—

b. also carries, transports or handles the player’s clubs.

So fulfilling (b) makes a person a caddie, even if (a) isn’t done by the player.

[DaveP043]

19 minutes ago, jlbos83 said:

It seems that the USGA could reconcile the Definition and the Rule!

A person who carries, transports (such as by cart or trolley) or handles a player’s clubs during play is the player’s caddie even if not named as a caddie by the player, except when done to move the player’s clubs, bag or cart out of the way or as a courtesy (such as getting a club the player left behind).

and:

Whether or not the player has a caddie, any other person who walks or rides along with the player or who carries other things for the player (such as a rain-suit, umbrella or food and drink) is not the player’s caddie unless they are named as such by the player or also carries, transports or handles the player’s clubs.

don't line up very well, at least to me!

The bottom line, if there's no penalty, its not a problem if you do it.  Another situation, in stroke play you're not supposed to lift another player's ball without his direct permission.  But if you do, there's no penalty attached.  

Really, the way to attack his is through the rules about Advice.    If that person is not his caddie, the Player can't ask him for advice.   Apparently @Iceman2 never asked the question while they were playing.  The other part of this has to do with rules disputes in Match Play.  A Player can't complain about something at the end of the round, something he's seen happening, for 7 or 8 holes, and expect to have a General Penalty applied to each and every one of those holes.  

2 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

So “any other person … is not the player’s caddie unless they are”:

a. named as such by the player

—OR—

b. also carries, transports or handles the player’s clubs.

So fulfilling (b) makes a person a caddie, even if (a) isn’t done by the player.

As I read the OP, the Opponent was riding in a buggie (cart).  Simply riding with him wouldn't have automatically made the new guy the Caddie.  If I'm wrong, and the guy was using a trolley (push cart), and the new fellow started pushing the cart, he'd immediately become the Opponent's caddie.  And naming someone as a caddie brings its own risks.  If some random spectator moves your ball at rest, no big deal, just put it back.  If your caddie moves it, its a penalty.  There are some other things a caddie can do to earn the Player a penalty which don't apply to some buddy just following along.

[dennyjones]

  btw... @Iceman2 welcome to TST!   We're glad you've joined.   

[Iceman2]

Thanks to you all for all the advice. When the guy got into my opponent’s golf cart he told me he was the team captain and had arrived late. I assumed that he just wanted a ride because he “Tiny” was his nickname was close to 10 stone overweight. But as they sped off from me to my opponents next shots I could see that Tiny was giving advice. So if I had wanted to I could have claimed 2 holes but I didn’t bother. I won the match 2 and 1 but the incident was distracting at the time.

1 hour ago, dennyjones said:

  btw... @Iceman2 welcome to TST!   We're glad you've joined.   

Thanks so much Denny

[DaveP043]

13 hours ago, Iceman2 said:

Thanks to you all for all the advice. When the guy got into my opponent’s golf cart he told me he was the team captain and had arrived late. I assumed that he just wanted a ride because he “Tiny” was his nickname was close to 10 stone overweight. But as they sped off from me to my opponents next shots I could see that Tiny was giving advice. So if I had wanted to I could have claimed 2 holes but I didn’t bother. I won the match 2 and 1 but the incident was distracting at the time.

I'm glad you won, congratulations.  I just want to mention one more thing, based on your last post.  In team events, the Committee may allow each team to designate an "advice giver".  That person is allowed to give advice during the round to any player on the team,  The Advice Giver may be the team captain, or some other person.  You may want to refer to Rule 24 to learn more.  I don't know if this was the case in your situation, but there's at least a chance it was legitimate.

But I'll go back, you can only "claim" one hole, you may only ask for a ruling on a hole you're currently playing (with a very few exceptions).  Once you've played a tee shot on the next hole, the preceding hole is decided if you haven't indicated your intent to seek a ruling.  Look at 20.1b(2) to understand the process in Match Play..