GEARS Curve (Lie Angle Curve or "Nipper Curve")

[iacas]

That's the "friend" from the former post… who has worked with Tour players from all major tours and who is the owner/creator of GEARS.

Watch the video. See what you think.

I may eventually merge the topics, but I like this one here with this title for now.

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Also, it's kind of a misnomer, because… the lie angles on the set don't curve. They're all the same. 😄 The amount of droop would curve, though…

[Ty_Webb]

This is very interesting. It makes sense that the longer clubs would droop more. I think my biggest concern would be how it affects aligning the clubface when the toe is up on the longer clubs. It's hard enough to figure out where to aim with the club flush on the ground. Presumably though this would be figurable in time. Just as unlearning how to swing slightly differently with each club to undo the probably subconscious adjustments being made currently. I'd think the fewer adjustments you have to make the better.

[saevel25]

Ok, I may have to rewatch it a couple of times, and I need some numbers. I am having a tough time visualizing what he is talking about. Not about the droop, I get that. When he is saying Gear's Curve. I would like to see his test data. 

Ping 5 iron is 60.5, the 9-iron is 63.5. What he is saying is, if you hit your 9 iron perfect. Let's say the dynamic lie angle is 61.5 degrees.  Then he is saying the 5 iron should be 63.5 degrees static? Let's say it droops down to 59.5 degrees. To get it to 61.5, it would need to be adjusted off that 63.5 static right? 

If he is saying the dynamic lie angle needs to be the same at impact, that makes sense. That would mean it wouldn't be the same lie angle at a static measurement. 

 

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Ok, I may have to rewatch it a couple of times, and I need some numbers. I am having a tough time visualizing what he is talking about. Not about the droop, I get that. When he is saying Gear's Curve. I would like to see his test data. 

Ping 5 iron is 60.5, the 9-iron is 63.5. What he is saying is, if you hit your 9 iron perfect. Let's say the dynamic lie angle is 61.5 degrees.  Then he is saying the 5 iron should be 63.5 degrees static? Let's say it droops down to 59.5 degrees. To get it to 61.5, it would need to be adjusted off that 63.5 static right? 

If he is saying the dynamic lie angle needs to be the same at impact, that makes sense. That would mean it wouldn't be the same lie angle at a static measurement.

Matt, he's saying you turn them all to the lie angle of the club you hit the best. Maybe that's every club at 62°. The 9I won't droop much, so it'll end up at 60.5° at impact, maybe. And the 4I will be maybe 57° or something, because the shaft is longer and you swing it faster.

[saevel25]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Matt, he's saying you turn them all to the lie angle of the club you hit the best. Maybe that's every club at 62°. The 9I won't droop much, so it'll end up at 60.5° at impact, maybe. And the 4I will be maybe 57° or something, because the shaft is longer and you swing it faster.

Ok that is what I thought. 

What I might disagree with is, let's say your best iron is the 6 iron. If you make your PW the same lie angle, and the club his shorter, it will be more upright, so now you are way more toe down. The PW will still have a bit of droop. So, how does his stance stay valid when going from a longer club to a shorter club. 

The opposite makes sense. If your 7 iron is the best club. You add a bit of length to it, it gets a bit flatter during the stance, so it gets toe up a bit, but it droops more, so it doesn't matter as much. 

 

[Ty_Webb]

7 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Ok that is what I thought. 

What I might disagree with is, let's say your best iron is the 6 iron. If you make your PW the same lie angle, and the club his shorter, it will be more upright, so now you are way more toe down. The PW will still have a bit of droop. So, how does his stance stay valid when going from a longer club to a shorter club. 

The opposite makes sense. If your 7 iron is the best club. You add a bit of length to it, it gets a bit flatter during the stance, so it gets toe up a bit, but it droops more, so it doesn't matter as much. 

 

 

I think the point is that the added distance from the ball (your hands are the same height off the ground, so that makes the angle of the shaft change) offsets the added droop. Statically speaking the lies of standard clubs adjust correctly.  That might be 61 for a 6 iron and 64 for a wedge. With the droop though, you end up at 62 for a wedge and 57 for the 6 iron, which is too big of a difference. If it's as Erik said 62 for all of them, then the 6 iron gets to 58 and the wedge gets to 61 so the 3 degree difference is maintained (61 vs 64 static). 

Also, how could it be valid going short to long and not valid going long to short? The exact same physics is going on between 4 iron and 7 iron and 7 iron and wedge. Longer vs shorter, more droop vs less droop. 

[iacas]

11 hours ago, saevel25 said:

What I might disagree with is, let's say your best iron is the 6 iron. If you make your PW the same lie angle, and the club his shorter, it will be more upright, so now you are way more toe down.

If the lie angle of your 6I is what you decide to go with, your PW lie angle will be made flatter than it is now, not more upright.

The longer the club, the more it droops. And good players often pull wedges, because we're all fit for a 6I or 7I. So they don't droop as much, and come in too upright, and pull.

[Ty_Webb]

15 minutes ago, iacas said:

If the lie angle of your 6I is what you decide to go with, your PW lie angle will be made flatter than it is now, not more upright.

The longer the club, the more it droops. And good players often pull wedges, because we're all fit for a 6I or 7I. So they don't droop as much, and come in too upright, and pull.

Out of curiosity, would you think you could get to the point where a club would be toe down at address? I'd think since most people bring their hands in higher than at address, which would increase toe down and at speed, the droop is going to also increase toe down, presumably at address you'd always want to be toe up with every club - just by a different amount depending on how long the club is (to offset the droop).

This could be an interesting topic to discuss on the spin axis.

[iacas]

20 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

Out of curiosity, would you think you could get to the point where a club would be toe down at address? I'd think since most people bring their hands in higher than at address, which would increase toe down and at speed, the droop is going to also increase toe down, presumably at address you'd always want to be toe up with every club - just by a different amount depending on how long the club is (to offset the droop).

No.

[saevel25]

Gotcha.

So, next iron order is going to be interesting 😜 

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Gotcha.

So, next iron order is going to be interesting 😜 

We can test it out any time, Matt. Just club-only GEARS with three clubs. 4/7/P or 3/6/9 if you're an idiot like me.

[billchao]

14 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Gotcha.

So, next iron order is going to be interesting 😜 

Meanwhile I’m googling loft/lie machine 😃

[iacas]

32 minutes ago, billchao said:

Meanwhile I’m googling loft/lie machine 😃

It's the blue thing we have by the fire exit door. 😄 

[billchao]

Just now, iacas said:

It's the blue thing we have by the fire exit door. 😄 

Yea I used it once back when you were downtown. I think it will be cheaper to buy my own than to go use yours 🤣

This does make a lot of sense to me, though. I tend to miss shorter clubs left and longer clubs right.

[saevel25]

Time to get the 7 iron measured. 

[iacas]

4 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Time to get the 7 iron measured. 

You can do that the next time you're here. 4/7/P like I said above. May as well.