What does it take to play on a tour?

[SubPar]

i just read the article and that is simply amazing. Tiger has around a +8 handicap!!!!? Thats insane! I never really knew they were that good.

They said on the broadcast that his handicap is +13.5 at the course they played the Tavistock Cup. That's his home course.

SubPar

[Chris5573]

These posts are all very interesting. I have recently been wondering what it would take for someone to play on a pro tour, (not "the TOUR"). There are mini tour events where the cut is around par, or sometimes a couple of shots over, and the courses they play are not as difficult as PGA courses. Am I wrong if I think that a scratch player or someone who is a +1 could make some cuts on the mini tours? In an earlier post, the book "Paper Tiger" was mentioned. I have read that book, (it's great by the way), and the author Tom Coyne works his handicap to below scratch...but he always seems to have a really bad hole and hardly ever broke 80 in his big tournaments. Sometimes I wonder how much nerves can play in shooting a bad round...if a player with a +1 handicap is shooting 85 or higher, wouldn't that be a case of nerves/choking? Not being able to mentally handle the moment?

[Shindig]

These posts are all very interesting. I have recently been wondering what it would take for someone to play on a pro tour, (not "the TOUR"). There are mini tour events where the cut is around par, or sometimes a couple of shots over, and the courses they play are not as difficult as PGA courses. Am I wrong if I think that a scratch player or someone who is a +1 could make some cuts on the mini tours? In an earlier post, the book "Paper Tiger" was mentioned. I have read that book, (it's great by the way), and the author Tom Coyne works his handicap to below scratch...but he always seems to have a really bad hole and hardly ever broke 80 in his big tournaments. Sometimes I wonder how much nerves can play in shooting a bad round...if a player with a +1 handicap is shooting 85 or higher, wouldn't that be a case of nerves/choking? Not being able to mentally handle the moment?

While Paper Tiger was a great book, I felt that Coyne put too much time into his full swing and not much into his mental game or short game. I haven't read the book in a few months, and I intend to re-read it, and he had to have had a good short game to get to single digits (much less one of the fancy +X ones), but it seemed to me his focus was on the long game. Yes, he needed the long ball to have a chance, but the long ball wasn't all.

Keep also in mind that scratch player means he has the potential to shoot the course rating - not even par. So a +1 with good nerves might have a chance at a Hooters Tour type event, it probably takes a bit more to earn some good money there to go with the experience.

[Richie3Jack]

The Tour Pros have great flexibility and technique and usually incorporate quality technique and superior flexibility in their golf swing. Hand eye coordination is usually overrated when it comes to golf as even the players that people claim to have superior hand eye coordination (i.e. Fred Couples) tend to have great or pretty good technique. Now, hand eye coordination can help those with poor technique (i.e. Vijay Singh, Phil Mickelson), but those guys still tend to get in the right positions at crucial parts of the swing and are usually the exception to the rule. And it's not by coincidence that just about all of the tour pros have great flexibility, particularly in the hips and the amateurs flexibility is not nearly as good. (Also not a coincidence that when tour pros get older they lose flexibility and they are not as good as they used to be).

Still, it takes a lot of practice to master the technique on a consistent basis and become adept on the short game. There are plenty of mini tour players that can strike the ball with the best of the world, but it's from 100 yards in that seperates the PGA Tour pros from the mini-tour players.

It also takes a bit of financial backing and sanity from the cruel game. I'll have to read that Paper Tiger book someday. Sounds like a good read.





3JACK

[Chris5573]

I agree that a major difference between a PGA player and a mini tour player is a better short game. It's true that there are mini tour players who can drive the ball as well as the TOUR players, but they may not have the short game or mental ability to focus on every shot. I also think that in other sports this kind of situation occurs. I'm sure there are great basketball players who are not in the NBA or a major college program who have as much raw talent as those who are...they may not have the understanding of how to play the game though. Same with a QB in football, there are guys who can throw a 50 yard pass on a rope, but they work at gas stations or or cut lawns because they can't master the playbook.

[Richie3Jack]

I agree that a major difference between a PGA player and a mini tour player is a better short game. It's true that there are mini tour players who can drive the ball as well as the TOUR players, but they may not have the short game or mental ability to focus on every shot. I also think that in other sports this kind of situation occurs. I'm sure there are great basketball players who are not in the NBA or a major college program who have as much raw talent as those who are...they may not have the understanding of how to

I don't know about the basketball part. If you look around different levels of basketball and football, it usually inevitably comes down to size. For example my college had a great player who knew the game and was great at that level because he had all of the inside and outside moves and could jump and shoot a little. But he was 6'3" tall at best and at higher levels of the game he would be forced to play guard where he doesn't have the skills to play. Same with football as there's a lot of smart, skilled linebackers on the D-III level, but they are probably only 5'9" tall and 210 pounds. They'd get crushed on the higher levels of the game.

If anything I think the hand eye coordination/"talent" part of the game is more prevalent in the short game with having to have touch and being able to read greens. It's not so much that mini-tour players don't understand the short game concepts, it's just that they don't have the talent to be good with the short game. That's kind of why you see a lot of players hit the ball so long these days. If they can hit the ball a mile, that makes up for their lack of a short game. That being said, the mentality is a big part of it. Watching shows like the Big Break is a perfect example as you never see the PGA Tour Pros lose their composure nearly as much as the competitors on each Big Break season. Somebody like Tiger may get down right hacked off after a bad shot or when a photographer takes a photo during their swing, but if you watch Tiger he'll start focusing on the next shot almost immediately. Players like the ones on the Big Break tend to let their temper fester over for a few holes. 3JACK

[SubPar]

There really isn't any one or two things that define a tour caliber player. Obviously, there has to be the right combination of skill, knowledge, emotional balance and an ability to perform at a high level under a great deal of pressure.

There are a lot of players who have the knowledge and physical skills but simply can't perform under the pressures unique to professional competition.

SubPar

[JaY_B]

They said on the broadcast that his handicap is +13.5 at the course they played the Tavistock Cup. That's his home course.

Well lets be honest, It's quite obvious Tiger does not play to a +13.5 handicap.

[SubPar]

Well lets be honest, It's quite obvious Tiger does not play to a +13.5 handicap.

His index is around +8. While no one would expect to ever play a course 13 under par, that could be the mathmatical result for that course, based on the rating and slope. Somehow I don't think the system was designed to accomodate +8 indexes. SubPar

[Shindig]

Well lets be honest, It's quite obvious Tiger does not play to a +13.5 handicap.

His home course could well have a high rating and high slope. He isn't exactly playing the 68.7 and 117 that I normally look at, I suppose. If the CR is 77 and the slope over 130, I don't think +13.5 is unattainable by him, especially since it's probably the course he knows the best and plays the most often.

Also, TOUR stops don't abide by CR and SR ; they don't just show up to a course on a Thursday morning, go to the tips, and start playing. Other than the U.S. Open, I don't think the courses they play regularly have a CR or SR even known.

[Crafty]

Well lets be honest, It's quite obvious Tiger does not play to a +13.5 handicap.

I guarantee you that he plays to at least a +13.5. Think about how tough the courses are that tour players play in comparison to the ones that you and I play.

I am nearly a scratch golfer, and there is a Nationwide Tour event at my course. The course is rated over 75 on an average day. I can honestly say the I have broken eighty only twice when the course is setup as they play it, both of which I thought were excellent rounds for me. It would probably rate somewhere around a 77 to 78 at the time of the tournament. My scores were 76 and 78. The winning score at this tournament (its called the Cox Classic If you want to look it up) is usually around 20 to 25 under par. That means the winner shoots at least five under each round. The cut is usually around two under. That means a player must shoot at least one round under par. I am 0.5 handicap, and they beat me by 4 to 8 strokes. And that is a player who makes a cut on the Nationwide Tour. Generously speaking on your behalf, that would make him about a +3 or +4, probably pushing a +5 Then lets move on to Tiger. He wins 5+ tournaments a year on the greatest tour in the world. He consistently shoots 62-70 on courses that are rated anywhere from 77 to 82 on the GHIN course rating scale (factoring in course conditions). This would mean that Tiger would rate anywhere from a +7 to a +20 on the GHIN scale. The average of that? +13.5

[Franco!]

Golf Digest says Tiger plays off of a +7.6 during tournaments but it'd be +9 in a normal course set-up

[Dent]

I just ordered paper tiger!! I'm So excited to read it!