Master "Forged vs. Cast" or "Blade vs. Game-Improvement" Iron Thread

[Norm3333]

IACAS's post was probably the best I've read on this forum.

I went with the Nike VR blades for several reasons.

My swing has progressed to the point at which distance control and accuracy are my biggest concerns. Not just hitting it as far as I can. The blade's zero offset and lack of trampoline effect across the face, in my experience, helps me with these. With a good swing, I want my 6 iron to travel 175 yds with a slight draw. Not 165 then 185. I want the same distance everytime.

The progressive or large offset issue gives me problems when I go from my 6 iron to my 3 wood.

Bobby Clampett talks about the offset issue in his book "The Impact Zone". That book has helped me so much. Another topic.

The appearance as I stand over them. Inspires confidence.

They are pretty. Superficial, I know. The heart can't help what it desires.

[misty_mountainhop]

Like it!!

Let's try to make this discussion interesting for once. Anyone know why it's easier to shape shots with blades?

A Cavity back Club has perimeter weighting. ie putting the wieght to the outside of the club and increasing the sweet spot or error margin. The blade puts the weight more behind the ball resulting in a small sweet spot but better response to mis-hits. A cavity is harder to shape because the weight of the club is so spread out. (my take anyway) Stick with the Cavity back even the pros are hitting them now.

I may have missed it (but don't think so) in this thread but the shaping ability (I think) has little to do with perimeter weighting or not and a

lot to do with offset. Most blades have very little/no offset. I think most people will certainly find hitting a deliberate fade with offsets harder than without. The pros are not "hitting them now". Some use them but not all and I'll wager that most of those who do, only really use true cavities in the long (3/4) irons. Blades generally have a higher CoG than cavities as well so it's easier to keep the ball down as and when you need to.

It's swing path that shapes the shot, not the blade. Over half the Champions tour plays Cavity back irons and they are able to play their ball as well as anyone playing blades.

Indeed but you'll get more shape with a blade than an offset cavity.

The theory behind blades is that to hit them well, you will have to focus on making a better swing and that, in turn, will make you better. Some also say that you get better feedback with blades. They say that when you mishit the ball, it stings in your hands a little bit.

Ego? Gee. Thanks. Personally, as a 3-4 hcp of ~25 years standing I think I'll go with my own thoughts on this rather than yours. I use blades because I like them. Too many reasons to explain to someone as open-minded as yourself I would think. Is it a jealousy thing?

As a general point. Blades are not as hard to strike as people would have you believe. Get yourself a decent swing (i.e. practice) and you'll hit them fine. You know what they say.... in, out.

[Norm3333]

Like it!!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[IcemanYVR]

The theory behind blades is that to hit them well, you will have to focus on making a better swing and that, in turn, will make you better. Some also say that you get better feedback with blades. They say that when you mishit the ball, it stings in your hands a little bit.

Have you even hit blades??? They DO sting your hands when you miss-hit them, especially in the cold...

IMO, the desire to hit blades is all about ego. People think that you are a better player if you hit blades, so they aspire to elevate their game to a level where they could hit blades well.

EGO ... come on... It has nothing to do with ego, if it does, I feel really sorry for that individual. They're playing for the wrong reasons. I'm sure you know everything the psychology of golf, but I'll take my former +2.4, and current sub 5 handicap over the word of a 20 handicapper any day when it comes to improving my game and what irons I should or shouldn't use.

Also, IMO, the notion that you can shape your shots better with blades is a bunch on nonsense. Plenty of tour pros are hitting cavity-backs nowdays and shape their shots as good as anyone.

It is easier to shape your shots with blades than it is with cavity backs, no one is saying it can't shape shots with cavity backs. You should try it sometime.

I love the looks of blades as much as anyone, but to me it makes absolutely no sense why you would want clubs that make this game harder than it already is.

Did it ever occur to you that blades might make the game easier for some people. It's much easier to chip around the green (gauging speed, less bounce), pick the ball clean off a really tight lie, hit a knockdown into the wind...

[wachesawgolfer]

The theory behind blades is that to hit them well, you will have to focus on making a better swing and that, in turn, will make you better. Some also say that you get better feedback with blades. They say that when you mishit the ball, it stings in your hands a little bit.

I cannot agree with much of what you say. A golf club is just a golf club. Ones mental attitude and focus is way more critical than one's golf club. Most pros are playing cavity backs that are close to blades in terms of size, offset and lofts and have miminal cavity. In reality they play like blades and are just as workable. Modern pros grew up with cavity back clubs and are simply familiar and comfortable with them. Very few, if any, play Game Improvement irons which are large, thick soled, have a wide top line, metal inserted faces, lots of offset and strong lofts. They, in a word, do not need all that stuff. They would hook the heck out of the clubs and lose any feel and control as to ball flight and distance. Heck, they are all now just retiring their two irons and some their three irons.

[wachesawgolfer]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I play to a 10 or so and my best rounds have been with blade clubs. No real difference at all to me. I found if I make a bad swing, my club, no matter what it is, doesn't seem to care and will not come to my rescue. How many times have we hooked, sliced or shanked a sand wedge? With all that loft and the club just doesn't care or forgive. Its been said over and over again, its not the arrow, but the archer. Clubs are more about proper fitting than head style. A blade you might find in a store comes fitted with a Rifle 6.0 or TTDG X 100 standard and that shaft simply doesn't work for most people. Too stiff, too stiff, too stiff. Get a set that shafts to your spec and be in for a big surprise how easy these clubs are to play with a little practice on your swing, so you trap/compress the ball, not just sweep/lift it.

[mirv]

i got a set of hogan apex blades for christmas just out of sheer curiosity. i've still got my ping i5 cavity back irons, and over these past few months, i find myself not even wanting to look at my pings. the hogan blades i got just feel so sweet. i don't get as much yardage out of them, but my accuracy has improved greatly. i don't anticipate going back to cavity-backs anytime soon.

[iWALK18]

what about no offset small headed cavity backs which look just as sexy from address as a blade? Wouldn't this be the smart move for people who want confidence looking down at their clubs?

[Norm3333]

Well said wachesawgolfer

IMO, bad swings mostly comprise fat/thin shots. No matter what type of club you swing, those 2 will result in a bad result.

I also have a hard spot with the attitude of "buying results". It's just how I feel and I am not trying to advocate that attitude for anyone else.

In my quest to become a "player" (<5 handicap), I want to do it through relatively classic equipment.

I use a classicly styled putter, irons, and woods. My driver is larger than the persimmon woods of old, so those who don't understand/agree with what I am talking about, save the criticism.

But, that's just for me.

[IcemanYVR]

In my quest to become a "player" (<5 handicap), I want to do it through relatively classic equipment.

Your comment gave me something to consider... I wonder what would happen if all the players on the PGA Tour were required to play traditional muscle back irons, and more traditional metal woods (ie... 330cc or smaller heads) on a US Open style setup.

Do you think we would see a change in leaderboards and rankings... would the better ball strikers rise to the occasion?

[Iowa Hawkeye]

I'm 18 and I learned to play on blades. Never have hit CB Irons. I'm still a bit inconsistant with my shots, but I'm gettin there.

[mirv]

i think that would be really fun and cool to watch if the modern pros were forced to all play "classic" equipment for a tournament. call it the golden oldies tournament or something. give them all blades and persimmon drivers and see what the yardages and scores end up being.

[Norm3333]

Your comment gave me something to consider... I wonder what would happen if all the players on the PGA Tour were required to play traditional muscle back irons, and more traditional metal woods (ie... 330cc or smaller heads) on a US Open style setup.

Tiger has said that may times. He wishes that blades and old-style equipment was still being used. He would have an even bigger advantage. Can you imagine, the umpteen billion dollar industry of GI equipment would disappear.

I wonder how much GI equipment truly helps to lower scores. And, IMO only, I feel that if I were to always buy the most technologically advanced equipment that would enable any crappy swing I make to be on the green tight, then why not buy an Iron-Byron?

[Norm3333]

i think that would be really fun and cool to watch if the modern pros were forced to all play "classic" equipment for a tournament. call it the golden oldies tournament or something. give them all blades and persimmon drivers and see what the yardages and scores end up being.

Golf digest should sponsor a tourney like the Tiger challenge (an amateur can't break 100 on the US open course).

We'll see it now that we've come up with the idea, but get no money.

[mirv]

I wonder how much GI equipment truly helps to lower scores.

incidentally, i play a nicklaus VIP persimmon driver that i got off ebay (some guy who ran a golf shop said it'd never been hit and was just collecting dust in a back room, so it's in fantastic condition), and i got paired up with a guy last week on the course who was a pretty fair ball-striker. i didn't pull the driver out until the 4th hole, and when i did, the other guy told me "honestly, i get very little more out of this club (indicating his 460cc driver) than i ever did when i was using a persimmon back in the day. i gain maybe 15 yards with this modern gear."

i told him that i had exactly that same story - when i downgraded to a persimmon, i lost probably 20 yards off the box, but i was a Lot more accurate with my drives. i've hit a couple of duck hooks, but i don't think i've hit an out-and-out slice a single time since i got it. hooray for outdated equipment!

[misty_mountainhop]

Tiger has said that may times. He wishes that blades and old-style equipment was still being used. He would have an even bigger advantage. Can you imagine, the umpteen billion dollar industry of GI equipment would disappear.

Someone may correct me but I don't think the average amateur hcp has dropped in the last 15 years so I doubt GI equipment has helped much at all. Lot of money for the manufacturers though

.

Golf digest should sponsor a tourney like the Tiger challenge (

Nonsense. I'll take your bet....or I would if I was able to. That's a bit of a sweeping statement methinks.

[denver_nuggs_15]

Someone may correct me but I don't think the average amateur hcp has dropped in the last 15 years so I doubt GI equipment has helped much at all. Lot of money for the manufacturers though

I thought it dropped like 2 shots in the last 15 or 20 years. It's a tough stat though. I would guess that many more "bad" golfers keep handicaps now than 20 years ago. That would inflate the average handicap.

Technology helps. Guys on tour play harder and harder courses and still shoot the same scores or better. I know there's better training, but technology has added to that.

Nonsense. I'll take your bet....or I would if I was able to. That's a bit of a sweeping statement methinks.

The Tiger challenge was that no 10 handicap could break 100 at the U.S. open. A lot of other really good players (Timberlake, Romo I think) played as well and did not play to their handicaps.

[Norm3333]

Nonsense. I'll take your bet....or I would if I was able to. That's a bit of a sweeping statement methinks.

Ummm, it was already done. And, the guy didn't break 100. Their (golf digest) doing again this year. I think M. Jordan is participating.

So, I guess I'll take your bet.