LPGA State Farm Classic [Spoilers]

[ctmurrray]

Yep.

The rule does not state the card has to be signed in a tent/trailer, and that you can't leave the trailer. So this must be a "local rule". There is plenty of blame:

1. the sacred trailer/tent being staffed by volunteers not LPGA officials so they don't learn of the problem until the next day, 2. the volunteers themselves should have been trained to not let anyone out the door until the signing 3. the caddie. The Golf Channel says the caddie has this duty along with 14 clubs. 4. the USGA for making something as simple as signing a card hard enough, with picky rules, that regularly people get DQed (Parnevik last year, Erica Blasberg this year I think).

[iacas]

Pardon me? I can't disagree?

No, you can't. It's not a matter of opinion, so you can't disagree. All we have is what's stated as fact, and you can't "disagree" with facts.

(b) If knowledge of the rules can be (and is) imputed to the players, then it can (and should be) imputed to the officials.

They were volunteers in the scoring trailer, not rules officials. I'm just reading what's written, Harry. You can say you don't believe what's written or call it a lie, but you can't disagree or argue with it unless you were there.

[QUOTE=Harry Longshanks;175732]Of course something could be done about it - yesterday. It happened yesterday, the scorer knew about it when it happened, and the scorer is part of the tournament officials.[quote] Look, you can't just make things up. I'm just going by the information we both have handy.

Source: golf.com article Wie said that after she finished her round on Friday, she left the tent where players sign their scorecards and was chased down by some of the tournament volunteers working in the tent who pointed out she hadn't signed. Wie returned to the tent and signed the card. "I thought it would be OK," she said. But Wie, according to Witters, had already walked outside the roped-off area around the tent. At that point, the mistake was final. Witters said she and other tour officials didn't learn about the error from volunteers until well after Wie teed off Saturday. They let her finish the round, then took her to the office where she and her caddy, Tim Vickers, were informed of the ruling.

The tournament and the LPGA are covering their arse for an unacceptable mistake.

If they were covering their asses, they'd have just swept it under the rug and we'd have not heard about it.

Either someone knew the rule and wanted to make an exception for Wie by not reporting it but got "found out", or someone didn't know the rule and therefore didn't report it. Regardless of which, the tournament and the LPGA were in the wrong and should be held accountable.

Harry, be reasonable. There's no evidence to support your theory. The LPGA isn't going to be "held accountable" to some crackpot theory on some forum somewhere.

I would also like to hear the circumstances surrounding why Wie didn't sign her scorecard in a timely manner (was the scoring area not properly marked, did she get distracted by a reporter, was she heading for the ladies' room, etc) But that is a different, albeit equally important, issue.

Or maybe she had a brain fart, left the scoring tent thinking she was done for the day, and earned herself a DQ.

I'm on record as saying I hope Michelle Wie would win. But now with this, she should be (as she was) DQed. Rules of golf, plain and simple.

1. the sacred trailer/tent being staffed by volunteers not LPGA officials so they don't learn of the problem until the next day,

Agreed, that's bizarre. I've been in the PGA Tour scoring trailers, and they have an official in there. They can be pretty hectic, though, and the "State Farm" on the LPGA Tour isn't quite a PGA Tour event... but I agree, no excuse.

In the end, Michelle Wie is responsible, but it does seem odd that nobody "helped" her be responsible.

4. the USGA for making something as simple as signing a card hard enough, with picky rules, that regularly people get DQed (Parnevik last year, Erica Blasberg this year I think).

Signing your scorecard, again, is one of the basic foundations of golf. Again, I don't think this rule will be changed any time soon. It wasn't changed forty years ago at a men's major and it hasn't been touched since.

The scorecard rules ... cannot be enforced on an ad hoc basis ... even when (or perhaps especially when) it is against a headline player who is engaged in a potentially career-altering tournament.

Spot on, yes.

At any rate, I also wholehartedly agree with Longshanks that the statement by Witters was ridiculous and she should be embarassed.

I didn't take that as badly as some of you seem to have. It put a human element to the story to convey how deeply disappointed Michelle was. It's not like Witters called her a name or anything - she simply told us how it affected Michelle Wie. So what? She was disappointed, like a kid finding out there was no Santa Claus? I've heard that phrase used before. It's not derogatory.

[iacas]

I didn't take that as badly as some of you seem to have. It put a human element to the story to convey how deeply disappointed Michelle was. It's not like Witters called her a name or anything - she simply told us how it affected Michelle Wie. So what? She was disappointed, like a kid finding out there was no Santa Claus? I've heard that phrase used before. It's not derogatory.

And this is a relevant quote, too, which may be slightly different. It's from what is called anofficial transcript at

http://www.sj-r.com/statefarmclassic...ess-conference .

Source: url linked She was very forthcoming. It was like I said, that's the only analogy I can make, I felt like I was telling somebody there was no Santa Claus.

[iacas]

More good information is available here, btw:

http://freedrop.wordpress.com/2008/07/19/wie-dqed/ I agree with this part:

The problem I have with this is that the LPGA tour and other organizations that have the resources don’t put a paid person who knows all the rules about scoring in the tent instead of relying on volunteers.

But that doesn't change the fact that, in the end, it's Michelle's job to know the rules.

[MrKadash]

You sign your scorecard after every round of an event - something that should be ingrained in your head from birth. That's the way it is, period. No discussion. She didn't, and was justifiably DQ'ed. Whether she came back at a later moment to sign is irrelevant. I was rooting for her, but she made a mistake, one which I highly doubt she will ever make again.

[Lemay427]

wow. that girl cannot do anything right. she plays bad, she quits. she plays good, she gets DQ'ed. I say she hangs it up.

[worst_shot_ever]

And this is a relevant quote, too, which may be slightly different. It's from what is called anofficial transcript at

You're right. Put in context it is pretty clear that Witters was trying to honor Michele, not mock her. My fault for reacting without all the facts.

[GaijinGolfer]

But that doesn't change the fact that, in the end, it's Michelle's job to know the rules.

Thats really all there is to it. She made a mistake and now she has to deal with the consequences. As a golf professional, its her job to know the rules.

I feel bad for her, I really do, but those are the rules.

[Klean]

There's a lot of stupid rules in golf. This is one of them. I don't see the point of DQ'ing someone when it doesn't directly affect the outcome of the tournament (i.e. cheating, modifying clubs beyond allowable specs, etc..)

I understand that attesting to your score is very important, but people do make mistakes and the infraction does not fit the penalty. If anything, fine her. Don't DQ her best showing of the year.

[localgolfer808]

wow. that girl cannot do anything right. she plays bad, she quits. she plays good, she gets DQ'ed. I say she hangs it up.

it was a mistake. She is dealing with the consequence and i feel that she is growing up even more. Thats life ladies and gentlemen. you learn through your mistakes. We all were at that point where we are not aware of the rules or did not understand them. Give Michelle a break. There are a lot of comments about her golf style, her speech style, and various other comments that are just plain stupid and rude. i understand that you have your opinion on how you interpret how Michelle acts/talks and so on. She is not perfect. You all are not perfect. She has struggled, but to ridicule a person who you don't know is just plain sad. I am not perfect either but have some empathy for her. She is still young and growing up just as each of you made stupid mistakes when you were young.

[iacas]

There's a lot of stupid rules in golf. This is one of them. I don't see the point of DQ'ing someone when it doesn't directly affect the outcome of the tournament (i.e. cheating, modifying clubs beyond allowable specs, etc..)

What about Ian Woosnam carrying 15 clubs for two holes even though he didn't use the extra one? No penalty there, either? After all, that extra club didn't affect anything there.

I think the rules have evolved to be about as fair and uniform and tightly written as possible.

[GaijinGolfer]

There's a lot of stupid rules in golf. This is one of them. I don't see the point of DQ'ing someone when it doesn't directly affect the outcome of the tournament (i.e. cheating, modifying clubs beyond allowable specs, etc..)

As a professional golfer, she should know better.

[TD22057]

There's a lot of stupid rules in golf. This is one of them. I don't see the point of DQ'ing someone when it doesn't directly affect the outcome of the tournament (i.e. cheating, modifying clubs beyond allowable specs, etc..)

I agree in theory but disagree in practice. It's just not a very complicated rule and it just doesn't come up that often because it is so easy to follow. There's multiple tournaments every week and it just doesn't happen that often. It does seem somewhat silly but then again, every sport has it's share of silly rules. Why can I take two but not three steps w/o dribbling in basketball? What about the baseball balk rules? Football's illegal receiver down field?

[GaijinGolfer]

The fact that its a stupid rule doesnt excuse Michelle for not knowing better. As a pro golfer, its her job to know the USGA rulebook inside and out.

[iacas]

The fact that its a stupid rule doesnt excuse Michelle for not knowing better. As a pro golfer, its her job to know the USGA rulebook inside and out.

And the LPGA rulebook.

The LPGA rulebook adds to the USGA rules. In this particular case, it says that a card is determined to have been turned in when the player leaves the scoring area. That part - "leaving the scoring area" - isn't a USGA rule, but an added or clarified LPGA rule. The USGA just says you must sign your card before turning it in. The LPGA clarifies what "turning it in" means for their tournaments. Just a clarification, not disagreement.

[Shindig]

Something occurred to me a moment ago about the argument with respect to Wie's card: if the LPGA decides the rule is stupid, they can change it for the future, and change it to say that the card must be signed in some pre-stated reasonable amount of time (such as requiring it signed within an hour of completion of the round). Either way, and even if they had decided yesterday to do this, they shouldn't judge her by the post-change standards (letting her play today) when her action was pre-change. It's pretty much the opposite of an ex-post facto law.

Consider, for example, Stewart Cink in New Orleans earlier this year. Essentially good etiquette caused him a DQ. The rule was changed after the fact, but even if the USGA had made the decision before his next tee time, I doubt he would have accepted the chance to finish the tournament, since the rules were broken - again unknowingly - at the time.

[ganjagolfer]

stupid rule, too many senile buffoons or lawyers writing the rules

[GaijinGolfer]

stupid rule, too many senile buffoons or lawyers writing the rules

Stupid rule or not, a rule is a rule. The other players managed to follow the rules, so why should we throw Ms. Wie a pity party?