Andrew Giuliani vs. Duke - Triple Bogey Blues

[iQuest Golfer]

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ERNEWS&ei;=5040

Andrew Giuliani, the son of the former mayor and presidential candidate, has filed a lawsuit against Duke University. The suit contended that he was unfairly suspended from the golf team.

Any comments?

[Shindig]

I didn't read the article you posted, but I did read a bit about this on ESPN earlier today. He claimed in one of them that it was going to interfere with his ability to turn professional. Because, as we all know, you need to play in college to turn pro. And I seem to remember that his scores in college tournaments were nothing to write home about.

Well, the world needs ditch diggers too.

And does Duke Athletics have any money left after the Crystal Gail Mangum case a while back? Even if Giuliani wins the suit, how would they pay him?

[ganjagolfer]

he also is going to sue his dad for not being a great dad

[Q.Q.Quillume]

In 2007/08, as a college junior, Giuliani played in only two college tourneys (six rounds) and his average score was 74.5. His best finish was T-36. Eleven other Duke (men) golfers had a better scoring average than Giuliani this past season.

[worst_shot_ever]

FWIW, here's how the complaint summarizes its allegations:

the University is bound to the same law of contract and the same covenant of good faith and fair dealing that every party to a contract in North Carolina is bound. Specifically, this action is brought because: It is wrongful for a coach to secretly expel a student from a team, in violation of numerous University policies enacted to protect the student. It is wrongful for a coach to secretly expel a student from a team without notice, without an opportunity to defend himself, and without cause. It is wrongful for a coach, by threat of expulsion, to attempt to coerce a student into waiving rights guaranteed to him. It is wrongful for a coach to retaliate against a student who refuses to waive his rights to fairness and basic due process. It is wrongful for the University’s lawyers to shut down an Athletic Director’s investigation of a student grievance, to conduct a sham investigation, to prevent a student from meeting with his Athletic Director, to insist that a student pursue a “grievance procedure,” and then to vitiate that procedure by publishing false and misleading findings and concluions based on their “investigation.” It is wrongful for a coach to set teammates against one another and then delegate to team members the power to expel a teammate who competes with them for limited places on the roster. Amazingly, Duke University insists that none of these acts is wrongful and that each one is, instead, within its “significant authority.” The purpose of this suit is to establish what common sense and basic morals plainly dictate: each of the acts described above and detailed within is wrongful and must be stopped.

First, whatever the merits of the suit, this is not pursuasive legal writing. Pretty amazing, really, given who the father is, that they would permit a brief like this to be filed.

Second, this law firm represented some of the Duke Lacrosse players. I have full sympathy for those clients, but it is relevant I think that Sparks, the paralegal on this case (and a current Georgetown law student) was also the treasurer of a group called "Duke Students for an Ethical Durham" that flowed from the Duke rape case. See NYTimes article, HERE . This is siply to suggest that there may be a bigger back-story behind the decision to bring this case than just Guiliani's situation. Third, not a sympathetic claim in any event. It is not like Guiliani has not enjoyed every advantage in life and lost his big break. Again, the merits are what they are, but I hope there's something really foolish in what Duke did to him, as Guiliani and his lawyers are going into this lawsuit giving up a lot of strokes, as it were.

[iQuest Golfer]

He claimed in one of them that it was going to interfere with his ability to turn professional. Because, as we all know, you need to play in college to turn pro. And I seem to remember that his scores in college tournaments were nothing to write home about.

Let's see...

Justin Rose, Ernie Els, Greg Norman, Sergio Garcia, Padraig Harrington, Trevor Immelman, Geoff Oglivy, Nick Faldo, Nick Flanagan, David Feherty, KJ Choi, Stuart Appleby, Retief Goosen... ooops! Tiger Woods. What do they have in common? Didn't rely on any diploma to make it in the big leagues. Hmmmm, I thought it was talent that produced results on the tour?! If Andrew wants it bad enough he can grind it out and earn it. I hope this gets tossed out quickly and saves the Giuliani family further embarassment.

[iQuest Golfer]

This is simply to suggest that there may be a bigger back-story behind the decision to bring this case than just Guiliani's situation.

I hope not. But, then, may be there is a real scandal, eh?

[Shindig]

Justin Rose, Ernie Els, Greg Norman, Sergio Garcia, Padraig Harrington, Trevor Immelman, Geoff Oglivy, Nick Faldo, Nick Flanagan, David Feherty, KJ Choi, Stuart Appleby, Retief Goosen... ooops! Tiger Woods. What do they have in common? Didn't rely on any diploma to make it in the big leagues.

I'm not sure if this is what you're saying, but Harrington finished college and even worked as an accountant for a while before turning pro.

But yeah, college golf doesn't really determine whether you can play professionally - it's good place to practice and form a back-up plan.

I hope this gets tossed out quickly and saves the Giuliani family further embarassment.

I agree, except for the part about sparing the Giulianis the embarrassment. I'm fully in favor of people who bring lawsuits in situations like this (unless there's something going on behind the scenes, as implied by a poster above, that I don't know about) being ashamed of it after the fact. Same with false accusations - it's why, whenever the topics come up, I reference Crystal Gail Mangum and Katelyn Faber. But we're getting off topic with the last name.

[Scratch-Hopeful]

In 2007/08, as a college junior, Giuliani played in only two college tourneys (six rounds) and his average score was 74.5. His best finish was T-36. Eleven other Duke (men) golfers had a better scoring average than Giuliani this past season.

I think this is going to hurt his ability to turn pro a little more than Duke will...

[iQuest Golfer]

Harrington finished college and even worked as an accountant for a while before turning pro. But yeah, college golf doesn't really determine whether you can play professionally - it's good place to practice and form a back-up plan.

I didn't know about Harrington. Good for him. It's always nice to have a back-up plan. The college systems in Europe are different than here in the U.S. regarding athletics. Which is why all the International are flooding the U.S. Universities and Colleges. Again... another topic for discussion.

Like you, I really don't care about the embarrassment to people who bring these types of lawsuits to the courts... it's just there has been so much about the Giuliani family... I'm a little tired of the soap opera, if you know what I mean?

[golf_junkie27]

Will Andrew stop crying, now? Is this what it's come to? If I'm not good enough, I'll just sue?

We know only two concrete facts. One, he was nearly last in scoring and he played very little. What does that say? Is he incapable of realizing the truth and that his game, presently, is limited?

Instead of taking advantage of everything Duke has to offer and asking his coach to allow him the use of the golf facilities, he must resort to suing Duke. Yup, it's Duke's fault they recruited a kid that was not good enough and now are releasing him from the team. This happens every single year, in every sport at every single institution. Psst, Andrew, that four year scholarship is really a one year scholarship renewable up to five times. Did you not bother to read it?

Furthermore, two of his teammates went on record saying that he was a "distraction" and a "detriment" (NY POST) and being off the team was a good thing. Yup, the saying is true. Your teammates will tolerate your BS as long as you can perform. Andrew couldn't.

[Harry Longshanks]

Are you guys saying you wouldn't trust this face to tell you the truth?:

[ganjagolfer]

if andrew giuliani gets himself a good enough lawyer, he may win the u.s. open someday

[Q.Q.Quillume]

...Psst, Andrew, that four year scholarship is really a one year scholarship renewable up to five times. Did you not bother to read it?...

According to The Raleigh News & Observer Giuliana was never on a golf scholarship at Duke.

http://www.newsobserver.com/734/story/1153558.html "As an aspiring pro golfer in high school, Giuliani, the suit claims, was promised lifetime access to Duke's state-of-the-art training facilities if he came to the Durham campus and paid $200,000 in tuition and fees over four years."

[ganjagolfer]

i would think any good lawyer would of advised him not to pursue this case, this will expose him to a life of ridicule

[iacas]

There's a bit more here: http://www.geoffshackelford.com/home...nted-to-p.html .

In summary, it sounds like he wasn't a good fit for the team, and the new coach manufactured some pretty lame reasons to oust him.

The even typing that stretched the amount I care about this to the limits.

[iQuest Golfer]

According to The Raleigh News & Observer Giuliana was never on a golf scholarship at Duke.

Makes more sense. I have a son that plays Div. I golf and he told me that he didn't think Andrew was on scholarship either. Like many university teams, there isn't enough money to fund all the players on the team - not with 3-4.5 scholarships for the entire program. Duke was just doing what many teams are doing... separating them that can from them that can't.

There are a number of respectable Div II and Div III schools that would give Andrew a chance to... oooops! Sorry... they would have given Andrew a chance to develop further in his golfing career.

[whip_it_out]

I jsut have to say, normal people who get kicked off a golf team dont file a lawsuit. You get over it.