Dress Codes: Good or Bad for the Game?

[thr33]

I may be wrong, but if i remember correctly sagging started in some prison where an inmate wanted everybody else to know that he was homosexual...

[Fat Slice]

There is a "broken window" theory of crime prevention that suggests that the more orderly the environment, the more the *regular* person will follow the rules. I think this applies to golf dress codes and golf course decorum. Put plainly, I think that when people are surrounded by others who are dressed up a little nicer, they are more likely to follow little rules like fixing divots, driving at 90 degrees, clearing the green expeditiously, letting faster, smaller groups play through, etc.

Of course, nobody will ever admit that their behavior could be controlled by their dress ("I am who I am and that's who I'll be no matter what I am wearing!"), but that belies the reality of social interaction.

http://www.bclocalnews.com/okanagan_.../42030247.html

A snippet from Wikipedia reporting on a study:

"Kees Keizer and colleagues from the University of Groningen conducted experiments to determine if the effect of existing disorder (such as litter or graffiti) increased the chances of people littering, stealing, or conducting other acts of antisocial behaviour. Their conclusion was that "one example of disorder, like graffiti or littering, can indeed encourage another, like stealing."

So it's more complicated than "clothes make the man" - it's that someone...even someone in perfect Marbas golf gear and $300 shoes, after being exposed to someone else dressing in jeans and a tank top, will be less likely to stick to all the courtesies of golf. Ironically, the one guy in jeans and a tank top surrounded by crisp double mercerized polo shirts and sharp cleared khakis will be on his best behavior.

If you believe this theory, like I do, and that it can have an application on a golf course...then a dress code will have SOME effect.

Are you as likely to replace a divot on a pristine fairway as you are on one that's been hacked up?

[flopdarock]

I agree with your comment about general apparel habits, especially with young people these days. What ever started the stupid trend of showing one's underwear? That has to be the most disgusting lack of taste I've ever seen in publicly worn clothing. I won't even call it a "fashion"... that's too dignified a word for it.

i guess ive been lucky in life to have lived in some well to do places... and the courses ive played are pretty nice courses... that being said... i consider you lucky that you arent over run by spoiled rich teens wanting to express their "ghettoness" driving their pimped out suv's bumping gangsta tunes in the parking lots... wearing flat baseball caps crooked... having to pull up their pants everytime they take a shot... and by pulling up i mean enough to hide their knees but not their boxers...

and the new trend ive seen from the teens on the course... is... incredibly tight tight tight pants with shiny belts... now the kids ive seen that are really into the game... dress like the pro's they idolize... like mini tigers... they actually look like golfers and have the scores to prove it

[Donnie_Brasco]

i take pride in my appearance on the golf course. i find it very inappropriate to dress otherwise. I will find myself wearing plaid cargo shorts, simply because of the heat and the extra pockets, but never will you see me play a round of golf without a collared shirt on.

Even this past week at Bay Hill on sunday the announcer mentioned dress code when he saw Gore with that muscle shirt on.. basically saying, guys put a collared shirt on..

[nathan]

Remember that "nice" clothing is not a standard of dress but rather your personal opinion of what "nice" is. To some people dressing well is a suit. To some people its slacks and a button down shirt. To me its cargo shorts and a walmart polo. To other people its jeans and a solid color t-shirt. Who is right?

Reading through some of your posts you think I am a no mannered #@$hole just because I like cargo shorts and have a ragged beard. People should not be judged based on their clothing. It is however easy to judge someone who does that. Clothes do not make the man his actions do. I am very successful in my career and I wear shorts and funny t-shirts to work. I have a long ragged beard and my hair style is whatever comes out of the shower in the morning. That has never stopped me from promotions/raises/praise from the company I work for.

I wear what is COMFORTABLE to play in.

Sorry for the rant it just frustrates me when people think they are better people are better than someone else for such a stupid reason. Hopefully someday you will learn to get to know someone before you judge them. Who knows you might even have a new golf partner who just happens to prefer gasp jeans...

[pjsnyc]

...What ever started the stupid trend of showing one's underwear? That has to be the most disgusting lack of taste I've ever seen in publicly worn clothing. I won't even call it a "fashion"... that's too dignified a word for it...

I may be wrong, but if i remember correctly sagging started in some prison where an inmate wanted everybody else to know that he was homosexual...

The origins of sagging one's pants vary from person to person.

I've heard the prison story before (its not because of homosexuality) - basically you weren't allowed to wear belts because they could be used as a weapon...or a noose. Also when I was in elementary/middle school, the kids that sagged their baggy jeans told me they did it because they were wearing their father's pants - typical inner city whippersnapper right? My opinions of some on this board have changed for the better after reading the last few posts :)

[Fourputt]

Remember that "nice" clothing is not a standard of dress but rather your personal opinion of what "nice" is. To some people dressing well is a suit. To some people its slacks and a button down shirt. To me its cargo shorts and a walmart polo. To other people its jeans and a solid color t-shirt. Who is right?

I just don't get why a person would have so little self respect that he would think that such a slovenly appearance is acceptable anywhere outside if his own house. People like you are precisely the reason this thread exists in the first place. I could wear clean blue jeans and a T-shirt and look more presentable that you do. You can say that it has nothing to do with your personality, but if you enjoy looking like a slob then there is something at fault in your character.

Not combing your hair is simple laziness, and believe it or not, you can be comfortable and still look neat.

[ryohazuki222]

I didn't know jeans were frowned upon by so many people. In texas jeans are dressy!!! :)

I guess I'm in the minority. I think dress code is bad for the game as it deters many potential players. In my definition of good/bad for a sport, thats the top factor.

I agree and disagree with many things posted... but I can assure you all that for me personally, the way I'm dressed has nothing to do with my etiquette. Still rake, still fix divots, still let faster players through, still dont spend 10 minutes looking for my ball.

Walking a hilly course in Texas heat...... I wish it was acceptable for me to go out in my tennis clothes. And though it seems the muni I usually play doesn't care about dress code (as lately i've seen more and more people in basketball shorts -- never a tank top or muscle shirt though) I feel too weird at the idea of going out like that myself.

[wachesawgolfer]

I love to see folks dress up for golf. They dress up for every other sport in some sort of uniform, unless its in an vacant lot or field. There you can hit golf balls also in cutoffs with no top.

[NM Golf]

Remember that "nice" clothing is not a standard of dress but rather your personal opinion of what "nice" is. To some people dressing well is a suit. To some people its slacks and a button down shirt. To me its cargo shorts and a walmart polo. To other people its jeans and a solid color t-shirt. Who is right?

Come on.....What were you raised by wolves? If you have grown up with any exposure what so ever to society you have know what dressing "nice" entails, don't give me that

. People that think that dressing in a t-shirt and jeans qualifies as "nice" have pulled the wool over their own eyes to try and justify what is essentially just laziness. I mean I wear jeans and a t-shirt a lot. Its a perfectly acceptable mode of dress 90% of the time. In fact the only places I go with any frequency where I think it's not is the golf course and work.

Reading through some of your posts you think I am a no mannered #@$hole just because I like cargo shorts and have a ragged beard.

Again with the judging thing. People are not judging you. I am not judging you. I cannot speak for everyone on this forum but I would imagine most people on here wouldn't really think anything about you. Jeez what an ego you must have to think that everyone has the all this free time necessary to go around and judge you by the way you look. We don't have the problem you do.

People should not be judged based on their clothing. It is however easy to judge someone who does that. Clothes do not make the man his actions do. I am very successful in my career and I wear shorts and funny t-shirts to work. I have a long ragged beard and my hair style is whatever comes out of the shower in the morning. That has never stopped me from promotions/raises/praise from the company I work for.

Better than you? You know, I think people like you want to look like a slob so that you can think people are judging you and then you can be a martyr. Climb down off the cross there big guy and get a grip. You are not a martyr, you're just a slob. You do what you do because you are looking for a reaction, or you are rebelling, or maybe you are just lazy. I dress very nicely and I am always comfortable. Nice clothes can be comfortable too.

No one thinks they are better than you, you just choose to dress in a way that makes you feel inferior. You have a complex brought on by your own appearance. If I saw you on the street or on the golf course I wouldn't give you a second thought. You on the other hand probably see people dressed nicely and immediately think we believe we are better than you. Who has the problem here?

I just don't get why a person would have so little self respect that he would think that such a slovenly appearance is acceptable anywhere outside if his own house. People like you are precisely the reason this thread exists in the first place. I could wear clean blue jeans and a T-shirt and look more presentable that you do. You can say that it has nothing to do with your personality, but if you enjoy looking like a slob then there is something at fault in your character.

Umm ditto!

[Fourputt]

Umm ditto!

I find it rather startling that as this thread has developed, you and I have gone from antagonists to allies...

[thr33]

lol you guys are silly, and make me want to carry an extra set of golf clothes in my trunk :)

[fischman]

The origins of sagging one's pants vary from person to person.

The origins of sagging pants came from poor families(ie. inner city minorities) that often handed down clothes from cousins, brothers, fathers. Many can't afford new belts for each kit so some kids end up with their brothers 2 sizes to big pants. Over the years this developed into an easily distinguishable part of being from the ghetto. As many of these things, what once was a sign of poor has now been adopted by many through music and tv/movies as a fashion style.

When I was growing up, I often had clothes 1 to 2 sizes to big as I inherited 90% of my clothes from cousins, garage sales, or goodwill. Yes, I swam in my shirts and had baggy/saggy pants, but now days appreciate a well fitting suit. I could care less what someone on the golf course wears if they are respectful to the course. I can tell you, had someone gotten me into golfing at a young age, I probably could have avoided much of the trouble I found for myself. Regardless, what someone wears or chooses to look like is not an extension of the quality of person they are, even if some wish it to be. I've met great golfers that were dressed to the top and others that showed up after working construction on some gaslines near by. They've all been respectful and great partners. Thank god for Iowa and their down to earth approach to life. end rant/ Josh

[pjsnyc]

The origins of sagging pants came from poor families(ie. inner city minorities) that often handed down clothes from cousins, brothers, fathers....

Yep - good explanation! Hopefully people will understand where it comes from now.

[nathan]

NM Golf...

No not wolves but I was raised in a very poor household. You are just supporing what I said by saying society dictates what is nice. So are you trying to tell me there is only one opinion in society as to what is nice or is it just that anyone who disagrees with your definition is wrong.

You need to work on your reading comprehension. I made 1 statement about people judging me based on statements that have been repeated in this thread. A common theme in this thread has been that people who wear cargo shorts or people without a clean shave or perfectly trimmed beard have less manors than the poster of the comment. The rest of my thread was an in general judging which is true. People in this thread have been saying players behavior on course is related to their style of dress. (which sounds like judging to me. this has been the running theme of this thread "dress codes keep the riff raff out so they are good")

Again work on your reading comprehension as I never said better than me. I don't think you get the fact that calling me a Slob is relative to your opinion. If I get 100 people from identical backgrounds in a room and have them judge someones appearance they will all have different opinions. How do you not get that everyone in the world does not share your exact same thoughts on the issue.

When I see people on the golf course I do not have any thought about how they are dressed. I am not like you. I play with people in full golf clothing and I play with people in gym shorts and a t-shirt. I do not care as long as they respect the course and the other players on the course.


To you and Fourputt...
What do you not get... Opinions are relative to you. What you think looks more "presentable" is your opinion. Its not the world consensus. My appearance is my choice its not about having no self-respect.

I can not believe people like you all still exist in this world. Open your eyes. You are not the freaking center of the universe. Everyone has opinions and they do not all fall in line with yours.

[Parker0065]

You know, you can get some pretty cheap polo shirts from Walmart and Target these days so there's really no excuse for not being able to dress properly!!!!!!!!!!


For those that make excuses about baggy pants due to growing up in the hood! Get a real education with your basketball scholarship, and a real job and you won't have to worry about hand-me-down baggy pants!!!!!!!!!!


So, there's really no excuse for dressing like a retard on the course!!!! It's a gentlemans game and if you have a problem with that, then don't play the game! It's that simple!!!!

[Fourputt]

NM Golf...

So wrong. Neither of us said that we judge your behavior by your appearance, although you are guaranteed to make a bad first impression when your personal grooming habits are so poor. What we have said is that you are NOT presentable, and no amount of protest from you will change that fact.

It is not a matter of personal opinion, it's a matter of social morés, and what you think is ok is not considered socially acceptable on at least 95% of the golf courses in the world (probably more like 99%). That means that your opinion on what is considered presentable on the golf course is wrong. All you have to do is crunch the numbers to figure that out.

[nathan]

So wrong. Neither of us said that we judge your behavior by your appearance, although you are guaranteed to make a bad first impression when your personal grooming habits are so poor. What we have said is that you are NOT presentable, and no amount of protest from you will change that fact.

This is what you replied to my original post

"I just don't get why a person would have so little self respect that he would think that such a slovenly appearance is acceptable anywhere outside if his own house. People like you are precisely the reason this thread exists in the first place. I could wear clean blue jeans and a T-shirt and look more presentable that you do. You can say that it has nothing to do with your personality, but if you enjoy looking like a slob then there is something at fault in your character. Not combing your hair is simple laziness, and believe it or not, you can be comfortable and still look neat." I guess calling me a slob and saying their is something at fault in my character is not judging me based on my appearance. Wow thanks for clearing that up. That is an attack on a personal level man. Since your pulling numbers out of your butt Ill pull some too... your 95% is probably more like 35%. In all the course I have ever played only 1 did not allow jeans. I have played quite a few private, semi-private, and munis. Around 90% of my original thread was about this thread judging people in general but you two took it as a I am butt hurt thread cause you are talking about me.