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Posted
I was faced with a long putt today that came up short and came to rest in a previous group's unrepaired ball mark. I did not notice it prior to making my first putt because it was more a of a little dent. It was not a deep mark and took up no mud.

I asked the other members I was playing with if they cared if I marked my ball, repaired the green and made my putt. They had no objections, but none of us knew for sure whether or not that was kosher. Was that ok, or does that sort of thing have to be taken care of prior to my first putt if it is in my line?

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Posted
My guess is mark, lift, repair and place the ball would be cool by the rules. Interesting though, and I'll watch for the verdict.

Posted
My guess is mark, lift, repair and place the ball would be cool by the rules. Interesting though, and I'll watch for the verdict.

I would have to agree with your opinion, as long as your repair job did not move the original position of your ball marker. Once your ball is marked, it seems to me that the location under the ball should be treated just like any location that the ball may end up.

I too am looking forward to seeing more opinions on this.
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Posted
I've had this happen numerous times, where my ball has become at rest in a miniture 'divot' on the green. It's frustrating, because it's not that easy to get the putt to come out solid. I usually move it over about 6 inches if I'm in a round by myself or a relaxed round, because I don't really think it's fair to have to putt out of something such as that on a GREEN of all places. But thankfully I've never had it happen in a tournament.

Driver Ping G10 10.5*
Hybrids Ping G5 (3) 19* Bridgestone J36 (4) 22*
Irons Mizuno MP-57 5-PW
Wedges Srixon WG-504 52.08 Bridgestone WC Copper 56.13
Putter 33" Scotty Cameron Studio Select #2


  • Administrator
Posted

You're allowed to fix a ball mark on the green, whether it's yours or three hours old or whatever. Spike marks no, ball marks yes. You're also allowed free relief from a ball embedded in its own pitch mark anywhere on the green or fringe.

I would have to agree with your opinion, as long as your repair job did not move the original position of your ball marker. Once your ball is marked, it seems to me that the location under the ball should be treated just like any location that the ball may end up.

I also believe that if your coin moves as a result of fixing the ball mark, there's no penalty. Worst case, mark your ball, move your mark a putterhead to the side, repair the ball mark, and move your mark back. I swear I just read this rule somewhere but can't find it again quickly.

I've had this happen numerous times, where my ball has become at rest in a miniture 'divot' on the green. It's frustrating, because it's not that easy to get the putt to come out solid. I usually move it over about 6 inches if I'm in a round by myself or a relaxed round, because I don't really think it's fair to have to putt out of something such as that on a GREEN of all places. But thankfully I've never had it happen in a tournament.

Since you're allowed to fix old ball marks, why cheat? Just fix it and putt.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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Posted
I've had this happen numerous times, where my ball has become at rest in a miniture 'divot' on the green. It's frustrating, because it's not that easy to get the putt to come out solid. I usually move it over about 6 inches if I'm in a round by myself or a relaxed round, because I don't really think it's fair to have to putt out of something such as that on a GREEN of all places. But thankfully I've never had it happen in a tournament.

Fixing the old pitch mark is the correct procedure. Mark the ball, lift it, then repair the damage. Replace the ball and play your shot.

Moving the ball 6 inches (or even 1/2 inch) is a 2 stroke penalty for playing from a wrong place (Rule 20-7).

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Posted
Good info, had my ball resting on aslope on a green in it's own ball mark, so had a tuff time to get it to stay if i repaired the mark.

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3 Wood - SQ SUMO2 15* stiff
Hybrid SQ SUMO2 20* stiff
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Posted
Good info, had my ball resting on aslope on a green in it's own ball mark, so had a tuff time to get it to stay if i repaired the mark.

If the ball won't stay when replaced, then (and only then) you can move it to the

nearest spot on the green where it will remain in place , but not closer to the hole.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Posted
Thank you. I am happy to hear I got it right.

Blog Internetz | Twitter | Rolling Knolls
----
Super LoCo 457cc 10*
Tight Lies 16* & 13*
Recovery 21* Pure Distance 4-PW Diadic 52* and raw 588 60* Anser 4 blade U-Tri Tour


Posted
I have a question about handicaps but i cant make a thread any ideas. I am a 13.6 handicap and i played a 9.2 handicap the other day. The slope rating of the course was 132 and 70.8. The 9 handicaper scored a 7 on the #1 handicap hole and i scored a 5. Do i still receive a stroke on this hole even tho i already won this hole? We are playing stroke play by the way

Posted
Fixing the old pitch mark is the correct procedure. Mark the ball, lift it, then repair the damage. Replace the ball and play your shot.

You're allowed to fix a ball mark on the green, whether it's yours or three hours old or whatever. Spike marks no, ball marks yes. You're also allowed free relief from a ball embedded in its own pitch mark anywhere on the green or fringe.

I wasn't trying to cheat obviously, I just didn't know you were allowed to fix the mark, that's all.

Driver Ping G10 10.5*
Hybrids Ping G5 (3) 19* Bridgestone J36 (4) 22*
Irons Mizuno MP-57 5-PW
Wedges Srixon WG-504 52.08 Bridgestone WC Copper 56.13
Putter 33" Scotty Cameron Studio Select #2


  • Administrator
Posted
I wasn't trying to cheat obviously, I just didn't know you were allowed to fix the mark, that's all.

And if you're a golfer, you know that intent rarely factors into the rules.

Learn the rules. They help you as often (or more so) than they hurt you.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Posted
I have a question about handicaps but i cant make a thread any ideas. I am a 13.6 handicap and i played a 9.2 handicap the other day. The slope rating of the course was 132 and 70.8. The 9 handicaper scored a 7 on the #1 handicap hole and i scored a 5. Do i still receive a stroke on this hole even tho i already won this hole? We are playing stroke play by the way

In stroke play you deduct your course handicap from your final total for the round, hole by hole scores don't matter. So with a 132 slope your index converts to a 16 and his to 11.

If you were playing match play then you would get 5 shots from him on the 1 to 5 handicap holes indicated on the scorecard. So in match play your net 4 would have beaten his 7.

Rob Tyska

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Note: This thread is 6346 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
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