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What's wrong with taking a lesson from a teaching pro?


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Posted
No, she's hot!

Equipment is always going to change. Heck look back 5 years ago. Square drivers? Heck, even hybrids were not really around. Just like swings evolve and change.


Posted
Equipment is always going to change.

Agreed! But I would like a set of clubs to last at least a year, maybe two ... no matter how I change my swing ...

In my Bag:

Driver: Burner 10.5* Stiff shaft
3 WoodBurner 15* stiff shaft
5 WoodBurner 18* stiff ShaftHybrid3DX (18.5*)Irons: (4-LW):Putter: Rossa Indy SportBalls: Reds

Posted
Since when does civil mean "without humor"? I certainly think a good natured political joke can be interjected anywhere. Why limit the humor to the grill room board?

I apologize for offending you with that post.
Favorite Practice Course:
Z Boaz Municipal, Fort Worth <<< Ben Hogan grew up playing here!
--------------------------------------------------

In the bag: 983E 9.5*, Fuji Speeder S RPM LP, 4W, Neutral Bias STAFF Ci6 irons, S (going up for sale soon) Tom Watson PVD 08 Wedges (G.S,L)... and a 4...

Posted
Agreed! But I would like a set of clubs to last at least a year, maybe two ... no matter how I change my swing ...

That was my point. By getting fitted for clubs, a set will last you a year or two and then as your swing evolves, you can get refitted and see if new clubs are a necessity.


Posted
That was my point. By getting fitted for clubs, a set will last you a year or two and then as your swing evolves, you can get refitted and see if new clubs are a necessity.

And I was thinking in terms of the "newbie" who drops 15 strokes off their handicap in one season ... I wouldn't want to pay for a new set of clubs twice a year ...

In my Bag:

Driver: Burner 10.5* Stiff shaft
3 WoodBurner 15* stiff shaft
5 WoodBurner 18* stiff ShaftHybrid3DX (18.5*)Irons: (4-LW):Putter: Rossa Indy SportBalls: Reds

Posted
The lesson/equipment thing may be a catch 22 situation. I'm not far enough along in golf to say and I have never been fitted so I have no data on that either.

My experience was trying to learn to play the guitar with a $20 Sears instrument my parents got me. Why spend more money until you are sure you will actually succeed in playing? I struggled with that guitar for years with no real breakthrough. When I finally got some money of my own I bought an Ovation Custom Balladeer and for the first time my feeble attempts at fingering and phrasing were successful because of the light action and responsive top on that guitar. The catch, AFTER I had some time successfully executing the techniques and sort of burning them into my fingers and hands I could play that stiff necked Sears buzz box just fine. May not be relevant and I only submit it as food for thought as I'm still waiting for my AH HA! epiphany in golf.

Mike


Titleist 905T 10.5°, 5W Golfsmith SuperSteel 17°, 4W MacGregor Tourney laminate 21°, 3-P MacGregor Colokrom M85 reissue, Snake Eyes 54° and 58° wedge, Odyssey Dual Force 330 blade

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Posted
I'm waiting out on new clubs as well. My wife says that if I can consistently score under 85, I can get new clubs.

Is that fair? ;)

Posted
I'm waiting out on new clubs as well. My wife says that if I can consistently score under 85, I can get new clubs.

I doubt it.

I have plenty of other pearls on the upside of divorce.

Best, Mike Elzey

In my bag:
Driver: Cleveland Launcher 10.5 stiff
Woods: Ping ISI 3 and 5 - metal stiffIrons: Ping ISI 4-GW - metal stiffSand Wedges: 1987 Staff, 1987 R-90Putter: two ball - black bladeBall: NXT Tour"I think what I said is right but maybe not.""If you know so much, why are you...


Posted
From my personal experience I can tell you what worked for me. I have been playing off and on for over 20 years. I played High School golf and then had to take a break in college. After college I played a little but not as much as I had when I was younger. In the past seven years I have played a lot more and made a commitment to play more and get better.

Having 20 year old clubs and getting a pay raise due to a new job I decided new clubs were in my future. I decided to get some lessons, buy new clubs, and then continue the lessons.

There was a huge difference in what the fitting would have been if I had gotten new clubs before lessons and after. I had a very upright swing before, but after working

Based on my personal experience I highly recommend that people get lessons before getting new equipment simply because fitting for the new equipment will be greatly influenced by how your swing evolves from the lessons. That's just my opinion though.
In my bag:

Driver: FT-5, 9° stiff
Wood: Big Bertha 3W/5W
Irons: X-20 TourWedges: X Tour 52°/56°Hybrids: Idea Pro 2/3/4Putter: Black Series #2Ball: NXT Extreme/NXT Tour
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Posted
people also need to get GOOD lessons, too. Having some driving range donkey who just got back from collecting balls tell you to flex your knees and check your alignment before you hit is a bigger waste of a hundred bucks than a good sand wedge that your walmart set didn't come with so you have another club other than a pitching wedge to hit from inside 75 yards.

let's also remember there's a big difference in picking up a set of your dad's blades in the garage if he's 5'8 and plays to a 2, instead of you starting out with a cavity back game improvement iron when you stand 6'1.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Flickr pics from hacking it up at Pebble, Bandon, Pinehurst, Whistling Straits, the Black, Kiawah & more...


Posted
Agreed! But in the terms of COST ... it probably is a better idea than to get fitted, change your swing and that club that you just bought dosen't actually work for you anymore ...

I agree to a certain extent. I went from x-14's last year to mp-60's and my game improved DRAMATICALLY. I went from shooting in the 90's & hundreds to shooting mid - low 80's.

sure you can't buy a golf game 100%, but if you understand the swing basics & what does what when, I think you can buy your sticks at any point. So a dude that's just starting out is supposed to waste $ on getting a starter set then 3 months later he has to drop another $700 on a quality set? I've told my friends that have just started out: hit a bunch of a clubs, pick the one that feels best right now. when your SS increases and you groove your swing, you can change the shaft out. the clubhead's the clubhead. important, but i think the shaft makes even more of the difference..so i'd say i agree with you somewhat...but from a personal standpoint and experience of going from a fat cavity back to a 1/2 cb and getting infinite amounts better and more consistent, then i say you can get sticks anytime.
DJ Yoshi
Official DJ: Rutgers Football
Boost Mobile Tour
In My Bag
HiBoreXL 9.5 White Board D63 Stiff Exotics CB2 5 Wood, Exotics CB3 3 Wood MP-60 5.5 Flighted Shafts 54 & Cleveland CG-10 60 Newport 2

Posted
I have read so many posts about "equipment I can buy to improve my game." I have read about what have to be some awful swings. What is wrong with taking lesson or two and developing a swing and then get equipment. Game improving golf clubs have a limit on just how much improvement can be made. Imagine how good you would be with a good swing and good equipment.

I agree. Back in my teenage years, I would play with my dad and his co-workers in their weekend game. One particular high-handicapper always had new equipment in the hopes that the new technology would improve his awful swing. All it did was make his drives that went 10 yards into the woods go 20 yards into the woods. As "serious" as he claimed to be about wanting to be a better golfer, he NEVER took lessons. The result: he continued to be a high-handicapper.

Many casual players are surprised when I tell them that in addition to playing 4-5 times a week, I take 3-4 lessons a year from a pro. For example, recently I noticed that I wasn't making as many putts as I usually do, but couldn't seem to fix it on the practice greens myself. I took a lesson, and the pro broke down my setup, my stroke, and most importantly, my strategy. When I played a round a few days later, I had 3-4 more one-putt greens than usual, and missed putts were all within easy tap-in range.

In the bag:
Ping G5 Driver 9 degree, Ping G10 3-wood, Nike 3 hybrid, TaylorMade R9 Irons 4-AW, Cleveland CG15 56 and 60 degree wedges, Odyssey 2-ball blade putter


Posted
I'm also surprised at how big of a deal people on this web site make buying equipment.

If I'm playing with a straight up hacker, I could care less what he has in his bag, if it's brand name primo stuff or knock offs.

Seems like a lot of people take the time to come to the Sand Trap, update their signatures with logos of clubs they use, be sure to tell us all the bounce of their gap wedge and which ball they'll only play if it's a southern tail wind, and then gripe that *other* people spend too much on equipment trying to fix their game.

never once has either a lesson or a club that I bought for myself made my playing partner better, so i don't understand the hoopla of people concerning themselves with others' business...

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Flickr pics from hacking it up at Pebble, Bandon, Pinehurst, Whistling Straits, the Black, Kiawah & more...


Posted
I'm also surprised at how big of a deal people on this web site make buying equipment.

You are obviously not into golf equipment like the rest of us. We like the stuff as a hobby as well as whether or not it works better for us. I like to hear about reviews of what others have had to say about clubs that have come out. Surely you have hobbies. Nobody could be so self centered that listening to others opinions on a hobby topic dont matter at all. Could they be?

Similar to the way, I like wine. I love buying, drinking, and collecting it. Yet I cant try every wine made, so I love reading about others that have tried different wines and what their thoughts are about them. Does that make my palate better? No, but it is a hobby.

Posted
I asked one of the pros where I work about this. He is a trained clubfitter and suggested someone play for at least a season or more before you get fitted. The golf swing is produced through muscle memory and if you have not yet "grooved" any type of repeatable swing then a fitting is a total waste of time.

As to what clubs to buy, do whatever is within your budget. For a newbie, go get a starter set that won't set you back too much. Why go buy a nice set at $700 only to have to get all the lies and so forth changed or have to buy a completely new set in two years. Yes some people freakish people like myself change sets every two years or less, but really get real, the average golfer has no need nor money to change sets that often.

If someone gets into golf, plays some, gets some lessons, enjoys it and decides to get serious, then get fitted and buy some expensive sticks. If get fitted and buy expensive clubs right when you first take up the game you are really throwing your money away.

Danny    In my :ping: Hoofer Tour golf bag on my :clicgear: 8.0 Cart

Driver:   :pxg: 0311 Gen 5  X-Stiff.                        Irons:  :callaway: 4-PW APEX TCB Irons 
3 Wood: :callaway: Mavrik SZ Rogue X-Stiff                            Nippon Pro Modus 130 X-Stiff
3 Hybrid: :callaway: Mavrik Pro KBS Tour Proto X   Wedges: :vokey:  50°, 54°, 60° 
Putter: :odyssey:  2-Ball Ten Arm Lock        Ball: :titleist: ProV 1

 

 

 

 

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  • 3 months later...
Note: This thread is 6190 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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  • Posts

    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
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