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Posted
I'm just wondering if a very forgiving driver (r7, etc.) can hurt an intermediate or advanced player's game (loss of distance, etc). Should they (myself included) be hitting less forvgiving drivers?

In my Ogio Ozone Bag:
TM Superquad 9.5* UST Proforce 77g Stiff
15* Sonartec SS-2.5 (Pershing stiff)
19* TM Burner (stock stiff)
4-U - PING i10 White dot, +1.25 inches, ZZ65 stiff shafts55*/11* Snake Eyes Form Forged (DGS300)60*/12* Snake Eyes Form Forged (DGS300)Ping i10 1/2 MoonTitleist ProV1


Posted
I'm just wondering if a very forgiving driver (r7, etc.) can hurt an intermediate or advanced player's game (loss of distance, etc). Should they (myself included) be hitting less forvgiving drivers?

I don't understand really. The most advanced players in the world play the forgiving drivers...

Almost all of the new drivers are "forgiving" My answer would be No, you aren't losing distance and shouldn't be playing more a less forgiving driver.

In the
AMP Cart Bag
Driver : 3Dx Square Tour 8°
3 Wood : 4DX
2H : Edge CFT TitaniumIrons : M685 3-PWWedges : CG12 Satin 54° and 58°Putter : Odyssey White XG #9 33"Balls : Staff ZIP


Posted
I'm just wondering if a very forgiving driver (r7, etc.) can hurt an intermediate or advanced player's game (loss of distance, etc). Should they (myself included) be hitting less forvgiving drivers?

I don't think I would call the superquad a "forgiving" driver.

Drivers:
FT-i Draw 9* W/Grafalloy Red
Sumo2 5900 9.5* W/Grafalloy Red

Irons: A3OS 3-PW Graphite/Steel regularWedges: A3OS GW, SW, LWPutter: Rossa Monza SpiderLittle round white thing:

Posted
Yeah seriously, tons of pros play superquads. Any you wouldn't lose distance, you would probably gain with a higher handicap one, because of the draw bias, gets some more yards probably.

Posted
I wouldn't call an r7 a GI club, and certainly if you can hit that club well I'd go with it. How ever there are drivers now that have very high MOI which can really helped a player of lesser ability gain distance, and maybe even some accuracy. These drivers do have their draw backs to though. One of these things being work ability. Most times people try to hit a drive straight but it seems that on a lot of holes you want to be safe by maybe working your ball a little bit away from the trouble. Some good high MOI drivers to try may be the cleveland XLS ( I have it, and compared to my 905 or r7 it's extremely forgiving) or the Cobra 4v, or Nike SQ series. But to answer you initial question, if all you're looking for is distance and forgiveness, a GI driver would certainly not hurt.

In the bag:
Driver: r7 quad v2 stiff
3-Wood: XLS
Hybrid: X
Irons: CG Golds 3-GWSW: x forged 56/13LW: Vokey sm 60/.08Putter: Callie 35''Ball: pro v1


Posted
I don't think I would call the superquad a "forgiving" driver.

touche! haha.

i would recommend most intermediate players try to put a square driver in the bag and not be pulled/pushed towards long (and less forgving) drivers such as the R7. As intermediate players should be concentrating 100% on accuracy and not distance. i Would rather be 220 yards on the fairway rather than 300 in the trees.
Driver: Callaway Diablo Edge Tour 10.5* (UST Proforce v2 77g X Flex) 3 Wood: Callaway Diablo 15* (UST Proforce v2 86g S Flex). 2 Hybrid: Adams A4 Tech 17* (UST Proforce v2 105g S Flex). 3 and 4 Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro 20* and 23* (UST Proforce v2 105g S Flex)
Irons: Tour Edge Exotics...

Posted
I hit just under 71% of the fairways with the superquad so accuracy is not a problem. I'm just wondering if it may be time to try different drivers.

In my Ogio Ozone Bag:
TM Superquad 9.5* UST Proforce 77g Stiff
15* Sonartec SS-2.5 (Pershing stiff)
19* TM Burner (stock stiff)
4-U - PING i10 White dot, +1.25 inches, ZZ65 stiff shafts55*/11* Snake Eyes Form Forged (DGS300)60*/12* Snake Eyes Form Forged (DGS300)Ping i10 1/2 MoonTitleist ProV1


Posted
Some advanced players might loose distance because of a high launch angle and two much spin, but if a driver is forgiving it doesnt mean that you will loose distance.

Burner 10.5* driver
Burner 3 wood GD Pershing Shaft
Burner 5 wood GD Pershing Shaft
Tour Burner irons
Rac black 52* Rac satin 60* Red x 3 pro v1


Posted
I hit just under 71% of the fairways with the superquad so accuracy is not a problem. I'm just wondering if it may be time to try different drivers.

I guess I'm really confused now. The superquad is a BANGER! When you hit that thing square it goes a mile. I used to hit mine 290, but couldn't control it for shit. %71 fairways is pretty good...

You mentioned loss of distance, but not your average drive length or swing speed. What are you trying to fix?
Drivers:
FT-i Draw 9* W/Grafalloy Red
Sumo2 5900 9.5* W/Grafalloy Red

Irons: A3OS 3-PW Graphite/Steel regularWedges: A3OS GW, SW, LWPutter: Rossa Monza SpiderLittle round white thing:

Posted
I hit just under 71% of the fairways with the superquad so accuracy is not a problem. I'm just wondering if it may be time to try different drivers.

If its time? Hm if your hitting 3/4 of the fairways, do you think it is? First of all if your not happy with it, it's your swing that doesn't yeild 100 percent, so I wouldn't blame the club. 71 is a great percentage, if you change you will get no more. If your truly unhappy with that work on swing consistency. IF it's not broke don't fix it.


Posted
I hit 72% of my fairways and I only average 240. When I bang one I only go 260 unless it's slope assisted. If I'm hitting up hill or in the wet, I might go 210-220. But I launch even a 12* on a mid trajectory at the highest.

If you don't feel you're getting enough distance then maybe you could check out some other setups. But honestly at 71% you've got your accuracy on lock. And a more forgiving driver shouldn't hurt your distance. If anything it should increase your average drive because it would be more able to coverup slight mishits. But there are other factors in forgiving drivers that could be hurting you. Consider offset, face angle, shaft length-weight-flex, lots of variables. As a rule of thumb for mid and high handicappers, I think it's a good idea to have your longest clubs as forgiving as possible. A 10% error on a 250 yard drive is 25 yards! But a 10% error on a 100 yard sandwedge is 10 yards (probably still on the green). Just my pet theory though.

Good Luck!

Note: This thread is 6269 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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  • Posts

    • Nah, man. People have been testing clubs like this for decades at this point. Even 35 years. @M2R, are you AskGolfNut? If you're not, you seem to have fully bought into the cult or something. So many links to so many videos… Here's an issue, too: - A drop of 0.06 is a drop with a 90 MPH 7I having a ball speed of 117 and dropping it to 111.6, which is going to be nearly 15 yards, which is far more than what a "3% distance loss" indicates (and is even more than a 4.6% distance loss). - You're okay using a percentage with small numbers and saying "they're close" and "1.3 to 1.24 is only 4.6%," but then you excuse the massive 53% difference that going from 3% to 4.6% represents. That's a hell of an error! - That guy in the Elite video is swinging his 7I at 70 MPH. C'mon. My 5' tall daughter swings hers faster than that.
    • Yea but that is sort of my quandary, I sometimes see posts where people causally say this club is more forgiving, a little more forgiving, less forgiving, ad nauseum. But what the heck are they really quantifying? The proclamation of something as fact is not authoritative, even less so as I don't know what the basis for that statement is. For my entire golfing experience, I thought of forgiveness as how much distance front to back is lost hitting the face in non-optimal locations. Anything right or left is on me and delivery issues. But I also have to clarify that my experience is only with irons, I never got to the point of having any confidence or consistency with anything longer. I feel that is rather the point, as much as possible, to quantify the losses by trying to eliminate all the variables except the one you want to investigate. Or, I feel like we agree. Compared to the variables introduced by a golfer's delivery and the variables introduced by lie conditions, the losses from missing the optimal strike location might be so small as to almost be noise over a larger area than a pea.  In which case it seems that your objection is that the 0-3% area is being depicted as too large. Which I will address below. For statements that is absurd and true 100% sweet spot is tiny for all clubs. You will need to provide some objective data to back that up and also define what true 100% sweet spot is. If you mean the area where there are 0 losses, then yes. While true, I do not feel like a not practical or useful definition for what I would like to know. For strikes on irons away from the optimal location "in measurable and quantifiable results how many yards, or feet, does that translate into?"   In my opinion it ok to be dubious but I feel like we need people attempting this sort of data driven investigation. Even if they are wrong in some things at least they are moving the discussion forward. And he has been changing the maps and the way data is interpreted along the way. So, he admits to some of the ideas he started with as being wrong. It is not like we all have not been in that situation 😄 And in any case to proceed forward I feel will require supporting or refuting data. To which as I stated above, I do not have any experience in drivers so I cannot comment on that. But I would like to comment on irons as far as these heat maps. In a video by Elite Performance Golf Studios - The TRUTH About Forgiveness! Game Improvement vs Blade vs Players Distance SLOW SWING SPEED! and going back to ~12:50 will show the reference data for the Pro 241. I can use that to check AskGolfNut's heat map for the Pro 241: a 16mm heel, 5mm low produced a loss of efficiency from 1.3 down to 1.24 or ~4.6%. Looking at AskGolfNut's heatmap it predicts a loss of 3%. Is that good or bad? I do not know but given the possible variations I am going to say it is ok. That location is very close to where the head map goes to 4%, these are very small numbers, and rounding could be playing some part. But for sure I am going to say it is not absurd. Looking at one data point is absurd, but I am not going to spend time on more because IME people who are interested will do their own research and those not interested cannot be persuaded by any amount of data. However, the overall conclusion that I got from that video was that between the three clubs there is a difference in distance forgiveness, but it is not very much. Without some robot testing or something similar the human element in the testing makes it difficult to say is it 1 yard, or 2, or 3?  
    • Wordle 1,668 3/6 🟨🟨🟩⬜⬜ ⬜🟨⬜⬜🟨 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
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