Fairways and greens... realistic stats

[SubPar]

I keep track of my putting, fairway and GIR stats in every round trying to have some idea what is, or is not, working. I generally hit 8-9 (of 14) fairways and struggle to hit more than 6-7 greens in a round. My GIR numbers stink because I don't hit the ball very far, so on 430+ par 4s, or 210+ par-3s I am pretty much never on the green in regulation.

In the back of my head I've had the crazy idea I should be able to hit 10-12 fairways and 12-14 greens. But, sometimes looking at tour stats sets my head straight when setting my expectations. In 2008 an average tour pro hit 9 fairways and 11 greens on a traditional par-72 track. That means my baseline expectation of my "okay" performance exceeds the tour average... not very realistic. The most accurate driver hit 80% of fairways (11) and the #1 GIR stat was 71% (12-13).

Because I miss so many greens and still shoot around 80, I usually have 28-30 putts. If I hit more greens my scores might not come down much, or any. That's because I would not be getting "up and down" as often. The ticket is to hit 10-11 greens and have 28-30 putts. In looking up these stats I noticed an odd thing which indicates the narrow margins on tour. Olin Browne and Joe Durant played virtually the same number of events (27 and 28). Their scoring averages were 71.81 and 71.24 respectively. Browne made less than $170,000 and Durant made over $800,000.* Their putting stats were close.. but, Durant is the guy who hit 71% of the greens!

If you keep track of your numbers, what are they? What do you expect of yourself?

SubPar



* Tiger Woods played 6 events with a stroke average of 68.9 and he won almost $6,000,000.

[r7 425]

Ive always felt that these stats were kind of ovrrrated in a way just because a major stat on the pga tour is Scrambling. You see day in and day out that the top guys on tour --all chip the ball fairly well. A great wedge game pays dividends for a poor iron and putting game. To me Scrambling is the X factor

[Fourputt]

I generally only hit 5 or 6 fairways in a typical 18 hole round, and usually no more than that many greens. But I keep my handicap at a reasonable level by being a pretty good scrambler. I don't usually miss by a lot, so quite often I'm still hitting an approach from playable rough, or I'm putting from the fringe (which isn't really much different from being on the green in most cases.

I think that the FW's hit and the GIR are statistically deceptive because they don't tell you how badly you missed, only that you missed. Certainly a high handicapper has worse misses, and then lacks the variety of recovery shots needed to salvage those holes.

The same goes for putts per round. My putting stats (right around 29-30) look quite good until you think that many of those one putts are for par (and sometimes worse) because my GIR stats are so lousy. I shot 38 (+2) on the front 9 the other day with only 12 putts (3 two putts and 6 one putts). What that tells me is that I was scrambling very well, not necessarily that I was putting unusually well.

A better measure of real putting prowess is putts per GIR. If that stat is under 33 or 32, then you are putting quite well... basically putting under par. But it also says that you are not just hitting greens, but getting a decent percentage of those shots close to the hole.

[Shanks-a-lot]

For my last 14 rounds (when I started keeping track) I hit 51% of the fairways and 36% GIR's. My average over par is 15.4 which gives you an idea of my skill level. I'm ok with my fairways hit, but would like to improve my GIR's. I also have a tough time getting up and down so I've been working on that to try to improve my scoring.

[SubPar]

True. I always feel the true quality of a round is defined by the quality of my "misses" rather than my "hits". You will always have misses, but when my misses are not too bad, I can usually have a good round.

My putting stats (right around 29-30) look quite good until you think that many of those one putts are for par (and sometimes worse) because my GIR stats are so lousy. I shot 38 (+2) on the front 9 the other day with only 12 putts (3 two putts and 6 one putts).

I shot 38 on 9 holes a while back with 10 putts. A decent score but, like you, scrambling my azz off.

Lack of distance is my real problem now. My short game is well above the level of my long game. I have 2 handicap short game with a 14 handicap long game. I played a par-60 executive course a couple of weeks ago where my longest approach shot was 150 yards and hit 17 of 18 greens. I will be stuck at a 7-8 handicap until I can generate another 20 yards with each club. I see where I am losing my clubhead speed and am working every day on retooling my swing mechanics, but it is not easy. SubPar

[mako224]

If I were to look at my driving distance I would be right in the upper half of the pack on the PGA tour.
If I were to look at my fairway percentage again I would be middle of the pack on the PGA tour.
Greens in regulation I'm not too shabby either.
I lose all my strokes on and around the green. Short game and putting kills me. I play with a guy whose long game is pisspoor compared to mine but he has a spectacular short game. If he is anywhere inside 60 yards its almost a given he will get up and down. If I had his short game I would play below par most days. I also seem to always wind up above the hole with a tretcherous downhill chip or putt. Putting really hurts me as well especially under pressure.
I will be stuck as a 7 or 8 handicap until I learn to chip and putt. You can't get to scratch 3 putting 5 to 10 times a round like I do.

[ctmurrray]

I just reviewed my numbers:
Hit fairway 60% of the time and frankly when I am off I am just barely off. Hit green 40% of the time and am short of the green 35% of time. Like a previous poster I am length challenged.

The last tournament of the year is basically a one man scramble. You can re-hit one shot from tee to green and one putt. You have to take the second shot no matter what happens. There is a risk - reward calculation. I shot even par on my course where I averaged 85. Most of my re-hits from the fairway were re-chips to get closer. And the second putt really helped me make the longer length putts - I got to read my own scramble putt basically. I won this event.

I averaged 36.2 putts this year.

[mirv]

i very recently clicked on that big banner in the upper right corner of the forum that says "SCORECARD" and purchased that. it's a pretty neat little gizmo, and it tells me that for the four rounds i've entered into it so far, i've hit 47% of GIR and 59% of fairways. i'm like you in that i had the notion that i needed to be way, way better than that. my end-all be-all goal for GIR was actually around 80% yeah, good luck with that, right? i was like, okay. i can miss like three greens per round at most. i was actually fairly content with my fairways, cause i had heard that the average tour pro hit about 60%. i figured i could do with hitting maybe two or three more per round, but my real focus is the GIRs.

...i'm still gonna aim for that 80% even though i know i'll likely never get there unless i suddenly go hogan on it.

edit: wow, i just checked the PGA tour stats - my driving accuracy, driving distance, and putting are all tour average. my greens in regulation is pretty weak, though, and probably explains why i'm not on tour. :P

[kc8kir]

SubPar, what tees are you playing from? If it's the back tees I would suggest moving forward until you can generate more distance WITH accuracy. Better to play a more forward set of tees and get used to scoring (and the confidence that goes with it) and then move back as your distance improves. That way, the course won't seem so long when you finally do have the distance. You'll be comfortable hitting those distances with accurate shot placement.

[mirv]

SubPar, what tees are you playing from? If it's the back tees I would suggest moving forward until you can generate more distance WITH accuracy. Better to play a more forward set of tees and get used to scoring (and the confidence that goes with it) and then move back as your distance improves. That way, the course won't seem so long when you finally do have the distance. You'll be comfortable hitting those distances with accurate shot placement.

i've been trying to tell my dad this same thing for a couple of years now. he always insists on playing the same tees as me, which is either white or blue. he's 63 and has never had much distance from his swing, and i keep telling him, look... just tee off from the black box up there. you'll get more enjoyment out of the game, i think, because you'll have a better chance of getting GIRs and scoring lower. playing from my box, he rarely gets a par. it's usually double bogey.

he's stubborn as a mule, but i finally got him to play from the blacks about a week ago, and instead of scoring 90+ he brought in an 82. he's been up on the blacks since, hehe.

[SubPar]

SubPar, what tees are you playing from? If it's the back tees I would suggest moving forward until you can generate more distance WITH accuracy.

I am not too pround to play the white tees, for sure. At my level, I have found being 10-20 yards closer off the tee helps only slightly. I play half the time from blues and half from the whites and shoot the same average scores either way. Where I play there are only a few holes where the difference is substantial (30-50 yds). Most of the time the difference is 10-15 yards and I can score just as well from 145 yards as 130, or from 40 yards as 25. In the end result, it makes little difference if I am 205 out on a long par-4 or 190 out. I would be using a 3-wood or a 5-wood respectively and the end result is usually up and down for par or a two putt bogey.

The benefit of gaining more distance with my clubs is that I would not only be closer to the green after my tee shot, but I would also be able to hit even less club to the green from the remaining distance. So gaining 20-25 yards off the tee and 15-20 yards with my other clubs is a compund benefit that is far greater than the difference between the white and blue tees.

i've been trying to tell my dad this same thing for a couple of years now. ...

What course has black tees up front? Around SoCal most courses have Red-White-Blue. Some better courses have blacks which are usually "the tips" (way back).

If I were to look at my driving distance I would be right in the upper half of the pack on the PGA tour.

We'd make a good best-ball team!

SubPar

[Fourputt]

Tee colors are strictly arbitrary. I know of courses on which the gold tees are the most forward tees, and I know of ones where gold are the tips. I know of at least one course where the back tees are called the "Rock" tees.

And you might make a good scramble team, not necessarily a best ball team.

[mirv]

yeah, just about every course around here has different colors for the different tees... about the only consistent colors are white being a middleground tee and red being the most forward. i guess i should've been more specific instead of just saying "the blacks." the course my dad and i play most has four tee boxes, with blue being the furthest back, then white, then black, then red. another course, a semi-private country club, has black, white, gold, red. yet another course we play sometimes - a public course - only has two tees: white and blue. i'd never actually stopped and consciously realized all the courses have different box colors until now.

[SubPar]

Yeah, that's the ticket! Sometime, what I mean an what I say are two different things!

BTW: I hit a good shot at the range last week and said 'That's the ticket'. Turning around, I find Jon Lovitz with a mock-hurt look on his face. In LA you have to worry about getting caught using someone's material. He agreed I am protected by "common use" and did not owe him a royalty. SubPar

[mirv]

lol, that's an awesome story. i should try golfing in LA sometime. i <3 jon lovitz. the critic is one of my favorite cartoons.

[ryohazuki222]

really useful stats compiled by the OP for a newbie golfer like me. It's always good to have realistic goals!

[SubPar]

I think the most productive way to count putts is not the official one. If you want to know how you really perform with a putter you should count every use of the putter as a putt.

If I am on the fringe and putt onto the green and then one or two putt, that does not help me in evaluating my weaknesses if I don't count the first stroke as a putt. I am more interested in how I am getting in the hole with the putter in my hands than in how my putts would add up in an offical putt stat.

SubPar

[Big_M]

For what it's worth my stats are...

GIR - 38%
FW - 60%
GIR per FW - 50%
PPGIR - 2.01
PPMGIR - 1.69
scrambling 31%
U&D; - 33%
SS - 13%
1st Putt - 15.9
avg putts - 32.5

My scoring average is +0.42 when I hit a FW, and +0.95 when I miss one... so missing a FW will cost me an average of 1/2 a stroke.

I hit 12% more greens from the FW...

my scoring average per GIR is near level par, but add an entire stroke if I miss the green

what does all this mean... I need to putt a little better, and FW's is important, but hitting greens is the real key.

Also, a note on me... I find that days when I have controlled misses I usually score pretty well, but if my iron game is really off, or if I'm not controlling my tee shots, penalty strokes can kill me, especially since many of the courses I play a lot don't have parrallel FWs where you can just knock it back over the trees and near the green or on. Many munis I used to play meant it was almost better to hit a 30yd slice than to hit a 10yd fade... because the fade might get you into a bunker or the trees, but the slice very will might put you in a parrallel FW.