Arm Lift

[jambalaya]

Is there any dispute that there is a arm lift in the backswing? A simple explanation of a backswing that I have seen is that the backswing consists of a lift of the arms straight up in front of the body and a turn of the shoulder. There is little or no sideways or backwards movement of the arms. As it relates to the one and two-plane swings, I look at the one plane as using less lift, no more that shoulder height. In the two plane we lift above the shoulder plane and drop more vertically with a more upright posture. I don't often think about the arm lift and as a result I drag the club behind me a lot. I saw some tips about the club position at the half way point in the backswing. They all show the clubhead even with or even slightly in front of the hands ideally. If you don't lift your arms soon enough and out in front of your torso you cannot achieve this I think. Any thoughts on arm lift?

[allin]

Is there any dispute that there is a arm lift in the backswing? A simple explanation of a backswing that I have seen is that the backswing consists of a lift of the arms straight up in front of the body and a turn of the shoulder. There is little or no sideways or backwards movement of the arms. As it relates to the one and two-plane swings, I look at the one plane as using less lift, no more that shoulder height. In the two plane we lift above the shoulder plane and drop more vertically with a more upright posture. I don't often think about the arm lift and as a result I drag the club behind me a lot. I saw some tips about the club position at the half way point in the backswing. They all show the clubhead even with or even slightly in front of the hands ideally. If you don't lift your arms soon enough and out in front of your torso you cannot achieve this I think. Any thoughts on arm lift?

The discussion normally is about the relationship of armswing to the planes of the club and shoulders. The club lifts because you create an arc that lifts the club, you just direct or control how much. The old string and stone or yo yo example demonstrates this. if you swing the stone or yo yo, when it reaches the limits of extenstion it then travels in an Arc as long as you are turning. You don't have to lift the Yo yo or stone because the acceleration creates the arc. There is some merit to applying your reasoning at the transition of the backswing into down swing. If you are dragging the club you might be getting your sequence wrong. Push the club back works best for most people, either starting everything together or with the hand first depending on your preferance.

[Dminn23]

Jim Hardy's labeling of swings is somewhat flawed. He categorizes people by shoulder plane and not release. Release is what really matters. If you went solely by shoulder plane, you would be camping someone like David Toms with Phil Mickelson, which is absolutely laughable. Mickelson turns the toe towards the ground and releases down the line. David Toms rotates around beautifully and releases left. Two VERY different types of golf swings but Hardy would label both as 2-planers. Jim Furyk and Sergio Garcia have more in common than you think. Immaculate impact positions, very leveraged, and both unwind AROUND. Furyk has some crazy looping in the backswing, but from hip high to hip high, hes one of the best in the business.


In regards to arm height, there are different ways to go about it. There are people that are more AROUND, and there are people that are more OUT-UP-Around. Freddie Couples = Out/Up/Around. Anthony Kim = Around. The people that are out/up/around have less left forearm rotation than guys like Anthony Kim.

I think Kim and the "around' model is much better as the golf swing is rotational. That being said, Anthony Kim does not raise his arms so to speak. His left arm rotates, this causes his right arm to fold, which brings the club up. Not a lifting of the left and right arm, just a folding of the right arm at the elbow joint. His arms are still very much in front of his chest though. If he was to collapse his right arm, it would hit his right boob. Someone like Hardy leads you to have your left arm all the way across your chest, which puts your arms too far in back of your body. His fundamentals will work, but for using Hogan as his model, he is miles off.

[DaveLeeNC]

An easy way to play with this is to divide your backswing into two pieces.

1) Arm lift and wrist cock
2) Turn

From just a backswing perspective you'll find that in two plane backswings your arms move "out and to the right" at 45 degrees to almost straight out in front of you (ala' Tom Watson).

For a one plane swing your arm lift is more to the right than in front.

dave

[mm6840]

Jim Hardy's labeling of swings is somewhat flawed. He categorizes people by shoulder plane and not release. Release is what really matters. If you went solely by shoulder plane, you would be camping someone like David Toms with Phil Mickelson, which is absolutely laughable. Mickelson turns the toe towards the ground and releases down the line. David Toms rotates around beautifully and releases left. Two VERY different types of golf swings but Hardy would label both as 2-planers. Jim Furyk and Sergio Garcia have more in common than you think. Immaculate impact positions, very leveraged, and both unwind AROUND. Furyk has some crazy looping in the backswing, but from hip high to hip high, hes one of the best in the business.

Every definition is somehowe "flawed" by definiton

. But in all scientific approach you should declare some axioms/hypotesits first . JH declares types of release too (you should check it)... but many players have mixed types .. i.e. Jim Furyk (2 plane backswing, 1 plane release) .. so it's not that simple/trivial anymore. And You're right about with Kim and Couples examples. Right (or left) forearm (from half way back) rotation up - brings club up.. but right elbow stays more or less down in 1-plane swing(somebody sees that as lifting of the arms) regards,

[jambalaya]

An easy way to play with this is to divide your backswing into two pieces.

That is just what I am doing. Went to the range and had a pretty good session. I was pulling them left a bit but making solid contact. I really felt my hips and shoulders turning back into the ball better. Seems if you are going to lift your arms rather than drag them back behind it puts your body in charge of generating power.

[jambalaya]

I've done some bold experimentation on arm lift versus pivot with wildly inconsistent results. As a result my swing was totally crazy yesterday resulting in a "Worse Round Ever" round. But I like to try crazy things just to see what happens so I can prove that I am an idiot. So here is my new idea.

If you keep your right arm pretty much against your side, let it fold as you bring your left arm up and straight as possible, that is pretty much a straight up lift although at an angle. Keeping the right arm in position will keep one from dragging the club too far behind and keep the club on consistent plane.

[Dminn23]

I've done some bold experimentation on arm lift versus pivot with wildly inconsistent results. As a result my swing was totally crazy yesterday resulting in a "Worse Round Ever" round. But I like to try crazy things just to see what happens so I can prove that I am an idiot. So here is my new idea.

And when you do that with no forearm rotation keeping the right elbow down, attempting to rotate and then just fold, you will get the club way across the line and have to perform some type of actio to get it where it needs to be.

Given that you have a good grip....You can take away everything in one piece, start rotating the LEFT forearm around 8-9 o'clock (the club). Notice what the forearm rotation does? It folds the right elbow and sets the wrists. All in one motion. Puts you in a great position to hit it with the pivot .