The Haney Project: Can Haney Fix Barkley’s Swing?

[HytrewQasdfg]

I originally voted Yes on this, but am changing it to no.

Haney is teaching him positions (put your head in this position, your backswing should be flatter so put your arm here.) He's just giving Barkley more things to think about. Thinking is his problem. As long as he is thinking about things (anything) he will have problems.

He needs to develop a FEEL for a correct swing. A swing where he doesn't THINK about what he is doing.

As far as hitting toward the target, you should ALWAYS hit the ball towards a target (even in practice.) If Haney is telling him to concentrate on keeping his head up and not worry about where the ball is going, then I think he has made a mistake. That doesn't reflect actual play. As soon as you hit the links you are going to worry abot the target. Your practice should reflect what goes on in actual play.

[iacas]

He needs to develop a FEEL for a correct swing. A swing where he doesn't THINK about what he is doing.

How do you feel the right positions if you don't know where they are?

As far as hitting toward the target, you should ALWAYS hit the ball towards a target (even in practice.)

Isn't that more like thinking?

Have you seen the recent shows? I don't want to get into detail, but I disagree on several levels with just about everything you've said. I'll leave it at that.

[HSip]

I absolutely think he can fix him - IF Charles will let him. I went through about a 6 month period where I developed a hitch (not as bad but it "felt" like it). I went from a 13 HCP almost back to a 20. It was murder - then the feeling of keeping my head behind the ball allowed me to swing freely again. When I see Hank telling Charles to keep his head still I just know he'll fix it. It was like being let out of jail (not that I know that feeling). Good luck Charles!

[HytrewQasdfg]

I don't want to get into detail, but I disagree on several levels with just about everything you've said. I'll leave it at that.

That's OK. It's pretty common for people to disagree with me. I have a long history of "thinking out of the box". When I learn to do something, I usually start with the conventional wisdom, but I question it and ask "is there a better way?" Or as my wife puts it "you can be so wierd sometimes."

I am slowly comming the conclusion that "positional teaching" of golf is the wrong approach. Placing people in static positions doesn't help them learn to feel the dynamic movement/feeling of getting there. Part of this comes from my background in drumming (I was good enough to play professionaly in my youth.) You don't think about what you are doing when you play. You just feel it and do it. It's almost reflexive. You get to that point by drilling movements into your muscle memory a little bit at a time. Once it's drilled in, when you sit at a kit to play you don't think at all about what you are doing, you just do it. You know you've executed a lick correctly because it FEELS right, you know you've goofed a lick because it FEELS wrong. I applied that same approach to raquetball and become pretty good at it in my 20s (not that I'm bragging, but yea I guess I am.) I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the golf swing should be treated the same way. Use various drills to drill the correct feeling of a golf swing into a person. Make the swing a reflexive act that you just do. And you know you've done it correctly because it feels correct (or wrong because it feels wrong.) I may be off base. I know this isn't the way most people teach golf, but it seems to make more sense to me. As far as always aiming at a target, it just seems like common sense to me. Swinging without having a target to me is like practicing the drums without a metronome. Practicing drumming without a timing device produces a totaly different feeling than practicing with a timing device. Since the goal is to play in time, you should practice in time. IMHO, swinging a club without a target produces a different feeling (or mental state) than swinging a club with a target. Since the goal is to hit the ball at a target, you should practice with a target to ingrain that feeling/mental state.

[iacas]

Use various drills to drill the correct feeling of a golf swing into a person. Make the swing a reflexive act that you just do. And you know you've done it correctly because it feels correct (or wrong because it feels wrong.)

And the way I see it, that's what Haney's doing. I know as a golfer the reason I put my swing on video is so that I can correlate my feel with where the club actually is. That's what Haney's doing - you have to get into the right position so you can feel it.

As far as always aiming at a target, it just seems like common sense to me.

Common sense isn't always right. And in my experience, when I'm working on feel, sometimes I'm not even hitting a ball. Sometimes I'm just making swings. So no, I don't think a target's always necessary.

And in the end, if you disagree with Hank Haney (not just me), you're disagreeing with one of the most widely respected, highly regarded teachers in the game today. You may be right, but I'd say the odds are probably pretty small.

[ApocG10]

Charles Barkley is a pro athlete. As seen by his weightloss and all the work he's put into his golf with HH, charles has the heart to fix it, and the mental toughness. I think he'll be fine.

[flopdarock]

charles needs to boost his confidence by hitting some decent shots and forgetting his crappy ones... with the thousands of balls he's hit... he must have gotten a hold of more than a few that looked pretty... store those babies in the memory banks

[uttexas]

as seen in the new episode, his swing and golf game is improving. However, his past has proven that he is susceptible to disasterous swing changes (apparently he shot in the 80s regularly 20 years ago). I fear that he will be forever prone to future massive set backs.

[Awsi Dooger]

The last show was the worst he's looked (par 3 charity event, particularly hole #3) and the best ("versus" Anthony Kim).

I'm surprised there isn't a more effective drill or device or swing thought to keep your head up. Haney can chastise him or hold his head all he wants. It's not going to click until something mechanical is in the process. His backswing is now very mechanical but much improved, albeit often still across the line.

Sorry, it never looks very sophisticated to me. How in heck does it take months and thousands of balls for Haney to get the idea -- from Barkley himself -- to stop the swing and start over if the head drops significantly?

It does crack me up that every once in a while the show goes out of its way to force feed a new device into our sphere, never to be heard from again. First the sound stick from the Ivy League inventor, and now the ball that magically ascends from below the mat during a practice swing.

[Andrew Rice]

As I said previously in this thread Hank Haney has no absolutely no chance!
Word on the street has it that Hank finally gives up on Charles and walks out.......
Time will tell!
If anybody would like to have a gentleman's wager on this I am open to suggestions!
Andrew Rice

[putput]

I think that he will be able to do wonders with the man, and it might stay a few years. However, i think without constant attention to detail he will start getting back into that bad habit on his swing. I am rooting for him to keep it, like Haney said, he is great for the sport and even better for the media.

[HytrewQasdfg]

And in the end, if you disagree with Hank Haney (not just me), you're disagreeing with one of the most widely respected, highly regarded teachers in the game today. You may be right, but I'd say the odds are probably pretty small.

Great teachers can become accustomed to teaching great students. The teaching techniques that are effective for a Tiger Woods may have totally different results when applied to an amateur having problems with even the basics.

I suspect if you put the twelve most highly respected golf teachers in a room there would be a lot of disagreement among them.

[iacas]

Wow, the hubris it takes to say "that Hank Haney, he doesn't know squat about the golf swing."

Wow.

[Guest]

I love the show, very addictive

[golfaddiction]

This is my favorite show on TV.

[HytrewQasdfg]

Wow, the hubris it takes to say "that Hank Haney, he doesn't know squat about the golf swing."

At least one golf instructor agrees that Haney is doing a poor job. Manzella spends most of his time working with amateurs/high-handicappers while Haney spends most of his time working with pros/low-handicappers. His bottom line point seems to be that you have to apporach the teaching of each differently. Saying Haney is using the wrong approach to teaching Barkley.

http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/g...y-project.html Manzella in the opening post and later in the thread rips Haney the poverbial new one.

[HytrewQasdfg]

I've been having problems catching this show because of the time it's on, but saw some last night.

I noticed Charles had a strange backswing. He seemed to pick the club up then start his backswing.

Did anyone notice Haney using a long stick on Barkley's backswing? What's the deal with that?

I heard an interesting comment from Haney. He said Barkley was so strong that the clubs were like toothpicks in his hands. Consequently he had no feel for the clubs. I wondered "did you think of adding weight to his clubs?" I think in an earlier show they said his swing speed was pretty high (116 seems to be the number in my head for some reason.) Adding weight might reduce his swingspead to 100, but if it adds control and feel it would seem to be a good trade off.

[iacas]

At least one golf instructor agrees that Haney is doing a poor job.

[sarcasm]Oh, well in that case, I totally take back everything positive I've ever said about Hank Haney.[/sarcasm]

I noticed Charles had a strange backswing. He seemed to pick the club up then start his backswing.

It's a drill. A drill I in fact used a little bit today. It's quite effective.

I'm going to go back to watching the show and trusting that "armchair swing coaching" is as ineffective as it sounds. I would venture to guess that not a one of us knows 1/10th or perhaps even 1/100th of what Hank knows about the swing OR how to coach people, and I'll leave it at that.