Bethpage Black

[iacas]

So, on Friday this week Flap has secured a tee time for himself, Rafi, and me to play Bethpage Black. 1:08 tee time should be good - we should finish in time.

I've played two rounds with an underskilled golfer in Tiger Woods 2004 (to more closely represent my skillset - which ain't 350 yard drives) and will play more in order to prepare (I need to turn the wind and rain off first). Seems like some nice hard par 3s and a lot of doglegs forcing you to work the ball off the tee or at least be able to estimate your carry distances.

What are your thoughts, anyone who has played there? What should I look forward to, what should I avoid, etc.? What tees do you recommend?

[JPsuff]

What tees are you planning on using?

From the U.S. Open tees, you'd better bring a cannon.

The Black is a classic Tillinghast-style course and as such, there are lots of elevated tees and greens. The average tee elevation is in the 40-foot plus range, so it's worth an extra 10 yards or so. The tee on the per-3 eighth hole is about 70 feet or so and the green is fronted by a pond and depending on the wind, it can be as much as three clubs LESS than you would normally hit for the distance, (around 200 yds. or so from the back tees).

The Black has a great mix of "draw" holes, (for right-handers) and most tee shots need to be placed well in order to take full advantage of your approach angles. There are also several holes, ( the 2nd, 6th, 7th, in particular), which require good placement of a long iron or fairway metal off the tee rather than a booming driver shot.

Most of the elevated greens require at least one club more to reach and often the pin/putting surface is not visible while contemplating your approach shot.

The greens are not usually too fast, but they are true so reading a putt properly is crucial.

The rough is still there, though it's not as it used to be in years past. Waste areas have now been manicured and either bunkered or grassed. Back in the 80's and into the late 90's, these areas were mostly left natural and were in play.

When people would ask me in those days what the rough was like on the Black, my standard answer was: "Well, there's the primary rough and then there's Vietnam".
Primary rough, (which is still plentiful but has been tamed over the years to speed play), is a very wiry fescue which lies over on its side. In the summer months, when the grass has really grown in, it is entirely possible on some holes to lose a ball that's just trickled a few feet off the fairway.

All in all, I like the way they've dressed the course up for the Open, but I remember it from the "old days" and I do miss some of its old character. It's still a stern test of a golfer's skill though and if you play it from the Open tees; you'd better bring your A+ game.

Have fun!

-JP

[iacas]

What tees are you planning on using? From the U.S. Open tees, you'd better bring a cannon.

Obviously not those. Probably whatever ones come to around or just over 6800 yards. On TW2004, the White tees seem a reasonable challenge, though I don't know how much further the blues are. Probably the blues.

All in all, I like the way they've dressed the course up for the Open, but I remember it from the "old days" and I do miss some of its old character. It's still a stern test of a golfer's skill though and if you play it from the Open tees; you'd better bring your A+ game.

Yeah, we ain't dumb.

I wish there was an online hole-by-hole summary somewhere. Hmm, Regulation Tees, Par 71, Slope 140, Rating 73.1, Yardage 6684. Probably those tees. The next ones up are 7200+ and par 71. For hole-by-hole, there's this, as bad as it is: http://usopen.com/2002/course/hbyh.html .

[JPsuff]

The U.S. Open tees are a real stretch, but the Blue tees make it fun.

From the Blues, you'll need a good 270 yd. carry on several holes to set yourself up properly, but overall the course plays very fair from them. From the blues, the Par-5, 7th is an easy reach in two if you can squeeze your tee shot past the trees at the dogleg. But the Par-5, 4th, though reachable in two with a good tee shot up the left side, is dicey because the small green and the runout behind it can have you staring at a third shot up a 30-foot hill through trees.

The 5th, the signature hole, has a diagonal waste bunker running mainly up the right side. The ideal spot for a second shot is also up the right side. A well-struck tee shot, (which has a built-in extra 10 yards dues to the elevated tee), should put you just past the tip of the bunker on the right side of the fairway with about 160 or so left to an elevated green.

Strategy and course management and shot-shaping are what it's all about on the Black and there is some margin for error on some holes, most require accuracy and good shot placement.

You'll love it.

-JP

[iacas]

The U.S. Open tees are a real stretch, but the Blue tees make it fun.

I don't think we're playing the 7200+-yard tees, no. If the only options are 6700 and 7200, we'll take the 6700. A 270 carry requirement ain't gonna cut it.

[jamesduncan]

You'll love it.

Black is basically my home course. I play it every weekend. I am "new school" in the sense that I moved the the NYC area in 2000 and only returned to golf mid-last year (I played junior golf in canada in the 80s) so ive only heard about the fescue..but the bunkers are enough problems for me..

Id concur with what JPStuff is saying. Play the whites (and if the wind is really up) if its your first time around. The course is "managable" from there.

I havent played the Blues yet (i have a deal with myself to be consistently breaking 80 on the whites before moving back in play low 80s now).

I find the greens flat so hit most puts firmly at the hole, expect for 11, 12, 15. 2 is really tricky for me. can never figure it out.

The US Open Tees are the markers but usually the Blues are near them. A few new Open Tee boxes have been built. But the Blues are indeed a stetch, but in someways help on the par 5s.


Id concur about 8 but also it can play long if the wind is up and in your face. Same with 15. Off the Whites Ive hit Driver 8 one day and Driver 3 wood the next. Hit one extra club on 17 (i always find it plays slightly uphill)

re: "Strategy and course management and shot-shaping are what it's all about on the Black and there is some margin for error on some holes, most require accuracy and good shot placement."


yeah this the deal basically! Bring both your draw and power fade off the time, solid mid irons and avoid sucker pins. The error come from bunkers off the tee and around greens. On 4 play far up the right hand side on your second shot. If you keep the ball in position of the tee you'll do well.


Heres a great Hole-by-Hole that shows post Ress photos:

http://nassauplayers.org/npcblkt.htm

Let us know how it goes!

Its only walking btw. And it a killer. 7 miles. Drink lots of water and good food for the climb at 15.

[neudi]

All this talk makes me wanna play it :)

[flap]

Gentlemen;I first played the Black in 1969 in high school so with that being said let me say this;On the Black I sing the Blues-I dont play them.1-2-3-4 are possible birdie holes if you are playing well.5 is I think the toughest hole on the course alltough i dissagree it is not the signature #4 is that was allways the hole pictured on the original scorecards.7 is not reachable from the blues in 2 by amatuer golfers.When I was a kid I used to rake out that pond on #8 cause it has a cement bottom.For me from the whites it is a 5 iron bounced off the right side hill on the green.9 is a good drive over the corner trees and a wedge or 9 iron to green.10 sucks!!!long drive and 5 wood and pray!!!11 as long as you stay right is not to bad.12 stay left if you want a soda from the consession stand and a 4 iron in.13 is still reachable in 2 long right side and 3 wood over pot bunkers.14 is all new with the extra green in the back and left side trap.15 is the corrall hole {yes they did really have horses there}and it is still called cardiac hill.Driver 5 wood for me.16 played real tough in open but I really dont find it too tough driver 4 iron.17 is a classic par 3 184 from thewhites to a hour glass shaped green 2 tiered.5 iron. 18 has been changed 4 times over the years to toughen it up and it is still fairly easy.Driver 9 iron.There you go a easy 110!!!!

[Rafcin]

From the Blues, you'll need a good 270 yd. carry

If I wear a skirt, can I play the ladies tees?

[JPsuff]

There are no ladies tees on the Black. Of course, if skirts are your thing, then party on!

But the 270 carry thing is real. That is to say that to set up a shot in an ideal spot as opposed to just an OK spot, there are several holes where, from the Blue tees, a 270 yd carry is a must.
For instance, on the 5th hole with the diagonal cross bunker, you could land in the fairway with as little as a 220 yard shot, but you'd be way left and looking at 240-ish to an elevated green and having to hit a draw. But a shot up the right side with a good strong carry would put you at the perfect angle to the green and only looking at about 175-ish and be able to fade the shot in.

Lots of holes are like that and that's one of the reasons that I'm a real Tillinghast fan.

[Rafcin]

...the 270 carry thing is real. That is to say that to set up a shot in an ideal spot as opposed to just an OK spot, there are several holes where, from the Blue tees, a 270 yd carry is a must...

Whites it is

[neudi]

If you wear a skirt and bring the ladies in your avatar...you can hit fromt he 150 post for all I care ;)

[Rafcin]

...and bring the ladies in your avatar...

Tiger might have something against it... after all it's his wife and his sister-in-law

[flap]

By the way there are Red tees or womens or foward tees.

[xian]

There are plenty of photos, much info, and several holes described in detail here:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/bethpage1.html

The info is a couple years old now, but it should be useful.

[sole wolf]

Have fun tomorrow guys.

[golfchief]

It's Saturday night and no update?

[Rafcin]

we were busy playing 2 rounds a day, too tired to log in at night

I'm sure Erik will have a review of the course/rounds, but these are my "off the top of my head" comments:

BpB is AWSOME. Conditions matching high-priced country clubs (IMHO), layout is great - tough, yet fair. We had a blast. What I was most amazed with was the quality of the bunkers. Now I understand why tour players "prefer to have a bunker shot rather than a chip from the rough" - I was 5 out of 6 in sand saves, which is normally more of a 25% affair for me. Every bunker was the same in constistency, amount of sand, hardness... amazing.

Some greens were crazy, I can't believe how good (and lucky) one have to be to play them in the US Open setup (12+ stimp)

Thanks again Flap for making it happen, it was fun !