Exasperated

[FortAsel]

My handicap only drops from mid March through mid December. And I can play golf all year 'round

[JackLee]

  hanon said:

JackLee, thanks for your help. I thought that clubface rotation was an unconcious movement which happned in a natural way. I see from all you that it is important to be conciously thinking of it throught impact. What about the arms? Dou you move them freely or you maintain them glued to your chest feeling pressure in the armpit and moving them with your body rotation?

Yes, the clubface rotation through impact is a conscious thing for me. I just consider it part of the timing of the release. I did that even before I started using the Master Key instruction.

As for my arms, my left arm is involved in the extension and rotation. Other than that, I do not think about my arms. Where they go depends entirely on my left shoulder and the momentum of the clubhead. I am not aware of any pressure in the armpit. However, I have tried the drill putting a golf glove in my left armpit. It never falls out until well after impact.

[hanon]

I am starting with the left shoulder Master Key. So far it seems to promote solid ball constac and a smooth swing. I will try to keep on working on it the next weeks. By now my swing is very flat with my arm never going over my shoulder line at the top. I was not trying to release and rotate the clubface conciously but I´ll begin to do as you have described to see if it works for me. My thought during my downswing is an "aiming point" 4inches ahead of the ball (as described in The Impact Zone by Bobby Clampett)

[JackLee]

hanon, My swing plane reference point is the base of my neck. I am 6' 3" tall, so that makes for a fairly upright swing plane. However, I think the Master Key swing should also work well with a flatter swing. You may want to experiment with different swing planes.

As to your question about pulling hard or smooth, I would say smooth. Timing and solid contact are extremely important, and by timing I mean the timing of the entire swing, producing the whip like action through impact with the correct face angle. Because the left shoulder key makes most of the movements automatic, your mind is much more free to concentrate on perfect timing and very precise contact.

[jambalaya]

I started when I was 15, had my low round of 78 when I was about 20, have had long layoff periods, started back seriously again about 8 years ago and have shot anywhere from an 84 to 119. Five years ago I took my first lessons and have gone through more changes than I care to remember. Things haven't exactly clicked yet but I keep trying and think I maybe zeroing in on a consitent swing finally.

[ugottabjoshinme]

  JackLee said:

I was a 25+ for many, many years with an occasional round in the low 90s. Then last May I found a long thread titled "Beyond belief" in another forum. It was about some instruction that I had never heard of. It was mostly positive, and some of the posts were very enthusiastic.

Ive heard that this instruction has no pictures and can be hard to follow. Is his talk really technical, or is it pretty simply done?

[madcityscott]

  ugottabjoshinme said:

Ive heard that this instruction has no pictures and can be hard to follow. Is his talk really technical, or is it pretty simply done?

I decided to order the ebook. I'll let you know how it goes.

[hanon]

It is so simple that you don´t even need the ebook: Turn your shoulder in a circle putting your whole attention in the left shoulder: In the backswing push you left shoulder to the right and in the downswing pull the left shoulder back around retraicing the same path. The rest of body motions will be automatic to this shoulder move.

Here there is a forum with many comments:
http://www.freegolfinfo.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=2363457

[JackLee]

  ugottabjoshinme said:

Ive heard that this instruction has no pictures and can be hard to follow. Is his talk really technical, or is it pretty simply done?

It has no pictures or illustrations, but I found it very easy to read and understand, and not very technical.

I hate to disagree with hanon, but if you want to try this, you do need the e-book or printed book. They both have money back guarantees anyway. I have read that entire long thread that hanon has given us a link to, plus several other threads about this instruction in other forums. I would say that trying to learn it from forum posts is not a good idea. In fact, there is a lot of misinformation about it in forum posts. There is more to it than just turning your shoulder back and forth. It also has the best explanation I have read about how to use centrifugal force and momentum.

[hanon]

  JackLee said:

I hate to disagree with hanon, but if you want to try this, you do need the e-book or printed book.

Of course you are right! The move is quite simple but if anyone is looking for further details he/she will need the book. I was saying just to try the move and if you have good results ( sure you will have with the master key) it´s time to go deeper and get more details

By the way. Yesterday I was having GREAT ball contact but my shots tend to go to the left or have too much draw as consequence of rotating too much the clubface (remember that clubhead rotation previously was an unconscious move but now if I do it consciously I tend to overdo it). What do you recommend me? A weak grip? Less rotation? A more inside-out path?

[Zeph]

  hanon said:

By the way. Yesterday I was having GREAT ball contact but my shots tend to go to the left or have too much draw as consequence of rotating too much the clubface (remember that clubhead rotation previously was an unconscious move but now if I do it consciously I tend to overdo it). What do you recommend me? A weak grip? Less rotation? A more inside-out path?

If the ball starts out to the left you are coming from the outside to the inside, how is your swing plane?

If the ball spin to the left your clubface is at impact aimed somewhere to the left of your swing path. If, during impact, your swing path and clubface aim the same place, ie. to the left, the ball will go straight to the left. If you ball starts left and continue further left, your swing path is going left and your clubface is aiming even more left. Maybe not at adress, but certainly at impact. You coul check your grip to see if it is neutral. The V you make with your hands between the thumb and index finger should both aim towards your right shoulder/left side of the face. Try to take your grip and see how it looks. Even if you seem square at adress, when you start swinging the club, the hands will tighten up and a bad grip will change the clubface. From a tip here I just changed my right hand grip, I was having problems with open clubface at impact, and my right hand was too strong, causing it to pull the clubface open.

[JackLee]

  hanon said:

Of course you are right! The move is quite simple but if anyone is looking for further details he/she will need the book. I was saying just to try the move and if you have good results ( sure you will have with the master key) it´s time to go deeper and get more details

Good instruction by Zeph.

If you are swinging a bit inside-out as instructed, then you need less rotation. Be sure you keep your left arm and hand in control of the rotation. Your right hand and arm could be overpowering your left. You could experiment with a weaker grip. Whatever works to get your face angle consistently good at impact.

[hanon]

Thanks, I was probably overpowering with the right hand. Today I was just using my left forearm to rotate the clubface and my shots were much better. I am trying to learn to supinate the left wrist as a new post has explained into the FGI thread

[madcityscott]

Have you guys had luck with the Master Key swing fixing your slice?

I read the ebook and tried it out at the range today but was still slicing my driver. Even if I consciously swing inside-out I still slice. Annoying.

[hanon]

I didn´t slice before using the master key, so I can not tell you because I didn´t have that problem. The only time when I had that problem was my firsts months into golf when I started my swing with the left hip or if I try to put too much effort into the shot with the right hand.

Without watching your swing it´s difficult to recommend something fo sure. But remember to just rotate back and forth your shoulders with your arms completely PASSIVE to avoid coming over the top and slicing. Also you may have a problem of an open face at impact. In this case remember to rotate more your clubface before impact to get a closed face. Keep us posted of your progress

[JackLee]

  madcityscott said:

Have you guys had luck with the Master Key swing fixing your slice?

Here is a possibility: Even though the swingweights may be the same as the short clubs, the longer the club, the lighter the head weight and total weight. We can feel that they are lighter, so there may be a tendency to try to swing harder, especially with the driver. This can affect the timing of your release, usually leaving the clubface open.

If a right hander curves the ball to the right, I think it has to be an outside-in path or an open clubface, or both.

[Zeph]

  madcityscott said:

Have you guys had luck with the Master Key swing fixing your slice?

I did it on my own with video feedback.

A "slice" doesn't really tell us anything, you have to elaborate on whether it's an outside to inside swingpath, open clubface, or a combination of the two. How is your shot shape? Where does the ball start and where does it end up?

[theGovna92]

No worries man, I was shooting in the 110-116 range for God knows how long, then one day I found what was going wrong and after 6 holes of my old game I ended up with a 99, first time breaking 110 in my life after noticing one single error in the middle of the game.