How a swing coming over the top looks like

[jambalaya]

You are doing a little reverse pivot at the beginning of the backswing. That will pretty much gaurantee an over the top move coming back down. You dip the front shoulder at the beginning of the backswing rather than rotate straight back turning the shoulder under. You dip, then rotate. I constantly fight that tendency. The only way I can fix it is to be aware and get a feel for just rotating straight under and back. Don't let the torso dip down or forward.

[squaddie]

To the OP, based on your first video (from behind), I think your backswing is too shallow, which could be tied to the observation of a reverse pivot. You need to be raising the club a little higher. I think that stems from moving your shoulders first instead of your arms. The hands and arms should move right first, and then the shoulders should turn (Hogan).

Here's a tip that helped me with feeling the proper plane on the backswing: the shoulder-tap test (note to mod: only including this link since it explains the procedure well, so please do not delete).

http://www.golf-swing-magic.com/shoulder-tap.html

When you are at the top of the backswing, if you halt and loosen the club, the shaft should tap you on the shoulder. In the case of your first video, if you released the club then the club would fall behind your shoulders.

Not a complete cure, but this should point you in the right direction to resolve the issue.

[mm6840]

However you should know this : Maintain the bend in your right (rear) wrist. If you unhinge your right (rear) wrist during the downswing, you will hit behind the ball. regards,

I have never heard this. Maybe anything can happen if you release early, not just fat shots?[/QUOTE]

Attachments ! You can see what i have in my mind regards

[Zeph]

The plane is still too flat, at the top it's fairly ok, but my dip and toss of hands at the top still makes it hard to reach the ball on plane. The plane is fairly OK to keep consistent, what I must focus on from this point is the dip of my head, it really ruins everything. I should shorten my backswing also, but doubt I'll be able to work it into my swing at the same time as keeping the head somewhat level. As I'm thinking of it and looking at my swing, the long backswing is sort of triggering the head dipping, maybe a shorter one can help keeping the head and torso from dropping.

I still got no lag in the wrists, but I hit the ball more solid when disconnecting the shoulders from my hips and letting the hips lead and throw the arms down. But with the fatal movement on top, nothing will come out great. My plane is definately better and the ball usually starts where I'm aiming, just a little to the left I guess, but it spins to the right most of the time. I'm thinking that my dip and hands moving forwards is related to the open clubface. I should probably work some more on my grip, really making sure my body and clubface aim the same way. I must also take the hands away more straight to the right instead of moving them out and turning over.

I had some shots in the very end that felt better and went straight when I kept the backswing shorter and head still.

The videos really help in analysing the practice sessions. But I won't fix anything by looking at it, I just have to practice.
It got a bit colder today, some frost on the ground, it'll probably be more in the weekend. Stupid weather...



Here's something intersting. Anyone said one plane swing?
I take it away too shallow, dip and throw it outside. No question about that.

Green is backswing, blue is downswing, green is follow through. Yellow is clubhead position.
Same procedure with Mr. Woods

[jambalaya]

I have never heard this. Maybe anything can happen if you release early, not just fat shots?

Attachments !

You can see what i have in my mind regards[/QUOTE] Happens to me a lot. When you hit an iron your club shaft should still have a slightly forward lean to it at impact, a flat left wrist and cupped right wrist (for right handers). Now just imagine your clubhead stopped right before impact; If at that point you uncup the right wrist until the shaft is straight up and down or leaning slightly back, you can't do it without the club digging into the ground or your body lifting up to make more room.

[Zeph]

I see from my frontview video that my arms are way behind my shoulders. When I reach the ball, my hans are behind my body. It forces me to release too early. I can see this beaing partly because of an overswing, but still, there must be something else. Even the swings where I do make a better backswing, but still end up way behind.

Any tips to the reason and what I can do to work on this?
I'm no expert, but I'm guessing I lose a lot of power with this move, or lack of move.

[jambalaya]

I see from my frontview video that my arms are way behind my shoulders. When I reach the ball, my hans are behind my body. It forces me to release too early. I can see this beaing partly because of an overswing, but still, there must be something else. Even the swings where I do make a better backswing, but still end up way behind.

So you don't believe my reverse pivot theory. I looked at your head on video again and your weight immediately goes to the front foot when you start your backswing. Your weight should go to the inside of your back foot on takeaway and stay there until you get to the top.

[Zeph]

I do believe it, but didn't make the link to the reaction. I see my shoulder is dipping, it's a good point, haven't noticed this before. I thought some about the reverse pivot at the range today and it was definately there. Thanks for noticing and giving the tip, I'll give it some work next time.

[JaY_B]

I see from my frontview video that my arms are way behind my shoulders. When I reach the ball, my hans are behind my body. It forces me to release too early. I can see this beaing partly because of an overswing, but still, there must be something else. Even the swings where I do make a better backswing, but still end up way behind.

The golf swings all about cause and effect.... its all very well saying you come over the top but its finding the reason that will cure your golf swing.

At address your weight favours your left side too much, you want to feel a 50/50 split between your right and left feet, with a slight 'tilt' of the spine away from the target. Another thing to note is that your right hand grip is way too strong, the V formed by your thumb and fore finger should point to your right shoulder, in your case it points towards the left. This will not cure the swing, but will go a long way to alleviating it, improving your set up will stop you from dragging the club inside the line on your take away and getting to flat at the top of the swing. Once you feel comfortable with your new set up, try taking the club away a bit further outside the line, this is a good video that will help explain what I'm trying to say:

[wachesawgolfer]

Slicer and Wachesa, your posts have been helpful to me. I've read enough of both of your posts to know that you both know something, and I wanted to work out what was causing the misunderstanding.

I still think there may be some laxity in your position at the top, although your move back looked to me to be fairly good on the video. If there is laxity, ie. lack of coil, doing much of anything, at the top of the backswing, doesn't help the downswing so the body recruits the right shoulder to move the arms out and down which is an OTT move. Make sure the shoulders/sternum complete the turn back and the arms just are turned/raised by that body turn. This keeps you connected and allows you to experiment on how to start down without just a right shoulder lunge out.

[Zeph]

Thanks alot, the tip about my grip is ofcourse correct. This could be a reason for my open clubface. The stronger my right hand is, the more it will pull the club open. Once again, great stuff!

The reverse piviot is obviously something I need to work on. I'll take some time with my setup.

Got a lot of points now, I'll be spending lots of money on the range this season. Good thing I also have free of charge access to a simulator when I'm at work. I work at an oil platfrom in the north sea. Two weeks on work, four weeks at home. I can use the simulator every evening.
I've hit about 1000 balls since sunday. Haven't cured anything yet, but I'm on my way.

[golfdad]

zeph, i have provided a suggestion earlier and not sure if you have seen that.

it sounds to me that your have no physical limitations (many do, due to tightness) and also quite well versed with theories, but since you are still limited with your desired progress, that is why i suggested what i had suggested.

i will reiterate: assume regular set up like now and try to hit the ball to the right side of your mind . through that kind of practice, you will realize that your mind and your body has certain disconnect in terms of what a proper plane is angled.

i think this is what is missing. getting out of the box and try something drastically different to reconnect your concept and the physical outcome.

[Zeph]

Are you talking about just trying to hit the ball without thinking of what I have learned and what I have done before? To rid myself of errors, just forget everything and swing away?

[golfdad]

other than questionable weight distribution on the way up, ie, reverse pivot, you have a tremendous coil going up. my suggestion is that from there, the beginning of the downswing,,,forget for a second whatever you think are correct and just try to place the ball somewhere onto the right side of the field. not slicing it right, but send it out right from the first contact.

instinctively, your body will automatically approach from inside, it has to, that is, your right elbow will track or even rub on the right rib cage,,i mean that inside for now!

why? because your body figures that the more inside the arms approaches the ball, the more of a chance that the clubhead will meet the ball from the inside half and push the ball to the right field.

BUT, what really happens is that your clubface automatically squares itself by then, so the ball actually goes straight. you are too analytical so i hate to restrain/burden you with more thoughts for now.

just go out there, set up to go "straight" but with your mind and body to go right and see what happens!

[Zeph]

Yeah, I've come to the same conclusion myself. In the beginning it was comprehensible, but it's starting to get a lot to work on. I wont help trying to work on my problems, but I won't try to fix it all at once. My main objective is a shorter backswing and keeping still.

I'll try what you suggested, just trying to push the ball out to the right. Staying lose, almost flailing the club about and see how it turn out. I know there are many details that are incorrect, but it's not terrible. I'm still playing at my handicap on difficult courses with all these extra handicaps. Any improvement is welcome. Just the change from sunday to today will help me. If I won't solve anything immediately, ok, but I have learned lots about the swing by doing this. I learned how to analyze my swing from the ball flight, makes it easier to get feedback. I finally learned, or, was made aware of how a golf grip should look and how it affects the club. I have read and seen it so many times, but sometimes you need that defining moment before you see it. I experimented with stronger and weaker grip with both hands and don't get how I could miss understanding this earlier.

I will work on these things every single shot from the range. I will use the camera now and then to get some feedback, but I know my swing much better today. I can evaluate it from the ball flight and impact. I'm really looking forward to improving my swing! Again, thanks everyone. The wind is picking up now and I got to work next week. I won't get much time to practice for a week or two, but if I got any questions or want to share my experience I'll be sure to come back to this topic.

[golfdad]

you mentioned shorter swing, which i think is very smart, very effective to sort out a lot of things, such as plane, tempo, contact, etc.

i can think of at least 2 types to try:

1. parellel to parallel: backswing about 45 degree so that the shaft is parallel to the ground, swing through and stop at parallel again. tempo, contact will be key foci.

2. L to L: where left arm parallel to the ground. very difficult to do well, but a very effective shot making tech. you should be able to appreciate the correct plane with L to L.

[thumper07]

OMG i thought i swung with my upper body! Keep working man, i dont know if anyone said this but if you get the club up on plane faster on the take away(you get there eventually) you wont feel you have to copensate. Everyone i have ever seen takes the club inside going up and out coming down. supposed to be the other way around.

-matt

[Zeph]

I hate this game...think I'll take up Snooker instead.