IM SICK OF THIS *$#! whats ruining golf...

[jojoampt]

I dont even see what the argument is about here. Who gives a rats ass about slow play as long as the slow people let you through? As has been stated before, its more of a ethics/courtesy argument. I dont think the problem is with people playing slow. You or anyone else in the world can take 10 hours to play a round for all I care, as long as you let me through. I played a round of 9 today, and got behind a two some, and a foursome of older people and I was playing alone. They were skulling it and chunking it all over the place; but both groups let me play through and I got the 9 in in about 1hr 40min. (check my handicap, im not good either ) Did I curse these people up and down? No. Do I think they are ruining golf? No. Did they ruin my round in any way? No. Do they deserve to be out there just as much as you or I do? YES. I think its pointless to debate slow play when thats not even the REAL problem. Its 100% about courtesy and 0% about how fast or slow someone plays this great game we all love.

[zeg]

Who gives a rats ass about slow play as long as the slow people let you through? As has been stated before, its more of a ethics/courtesy argument.

I'm sympathetic to this view, as yes, if you're playing somewhat slowly, letting people through ameliorates the worst of the problem. Certainly if someone behind you is clearly being held up, you should let them through if there's clear space within a couple groups ahead.

Did I curse these people up and down? No. Do I think they are ruining golf? No. Did they ruin my round in any way? No.

I love your attitude.

Do they deserve to be out there just as much as you or I do? YES. I think its pointless to debate slow play when thats not even the REAL problem. Its 100% about courtesy and 0% about how fast or slow someone plays this great game we all love.

I think it is important to try to keep the speed up to a reasonable pace (i.e., what the course operators have decided is the pace, if it's posted), regardless of whether you conscientiously let people through or not. The reason that is, ok, if one group is playing below pace, things are fine-- people play through. If half the groups are playing slowly, playing through stops helping the overall rate as much. The "traffic jam" hits a critical point and the course capacity just drops precipitously.

So, sure, we all have bad rounds now and then, and (especially for high handicappers), it doesn't take THAT much delay per hole to add up to a very long round (my previous estimate showed that it's not unfeasible for 4 high-handicappers to play a 4 hour round, but there's not an enormous margin, so you'd expect reasonably frequent overruns). If most people play quickly, that's fine. I guess this doesn't lead to a great solution, except to say pay attention to the rest of the course. If it looks wide open, and you're having a slow round, then just let people through and it should be fine. If things seem to be busy (and you have to be very aware, since if you're playing slowly, your OWN round will seem unimpeded), then you probably should pick things up and cut a few corners to keep pace, even if this means abridging the rules in a disaster practice round. If everyone tried hard to apply this sort of awareness, then it'd really help to keep the pace up.

[jojoampt]

duh! i didnt even think of it like that.

I guess it would really suck if there were 5 or 6 groups on the course playing super slow.

I think it is important to try to keep the speed up to a reasonable pace (i.e., what the course operators have decided is the pace, if it's posted), regardless of whether you conscientiously let people through or not. The reason that is, ok, if one group is playing below pace, things are fine-- people play through. If half the groups are playing slowly, playing through stops helping the overall rate as much. The "traffic jam" hits a critical point and the course capacity just drops precipitously.

[Urrrk]

You know what's really ruining golf? Frickin' snow on the last weekend in March. Had to quit after nine on Saturday cause I couldn't feel my hands and couldn't play with winter gloves.

OTOH, we didn't get held up by anyone.

[Damien45]

I played behind the slowest, most inconsiderrate foursome I have ever seen yesterday! These folks play from the blues and barely make the fairway. Then they would all gather a ball and watch the one person hit and move on to the next. It took them 3 shots before I could tee off. I was playing with two older guys who played the whites also, and they even had to wait for the group to hit 3. As much as we tried to press and get a "Hey you want to play through" they ignored us.

To make it worse, they parked their carts right at the mouth of the parking lot, put their equipment in the left over space, and pulled a van up which completely blocked the incoming/outgoing traffic. At this course they encourage you to drive to your car to unload.

Appearantly these guys drive around together and play golf around the US. One was bragging that he shot a 92. I had to ask myself, if you hit 4 balls to get to the green, how did you get a 92?

~end rant~

[xMATHISx]

Sunday I went and played Squaw Valley. There was a group of 5 in front of me and a friend. We kept waiting and waiting and finally caught them on a tee box. One turns to me and says "We'd let yall play through but there's nowhere to go. We can't do anything for the slow group ahead of us." We get out to where the course opens up more and you can see the next few holes...NOBODY was ahead of them for 2 holes. But because we were told they were waiting on a slow group we just dropped the issue and tried to have as much fun as possible, even with 15 minute waits between holes.

[gofne1]

I agree w/fat slice....jump ahead a hole then come back around at the end if there's daylight. The duffer's won't catch up, and if the marshall says anything, just tell him to watch a few of their shots!

Main reason for this is that many more people are taking up golf and they really don't go to the range or take 1 lesson. I'll grab one or 2 of the pro's cards/lesson deals, etc. if available in the clubhouse, then as you're playing thru--toss one on their cart seat. That's my way of making the world a better place!! ;^) LOL!

[RocketSauce]

i cant believe how big this thread got!

[Fat Slice]

At least you don't have to wait to post here in case the person in front of you is a slow typer.

[iacas]

At least you don't have to wait to post here in case the person in front of you is a slow typer.

G

o o d on [stinson]wait for it[/stinson] e

[Mr3Putt]

I had posted this about a year and a half ago (when it happened) on another forum. I just want to compare responses, after a while, I'll tell you how the issue was resolved.........


OK, here's the deal.

I'm an officer (Treasurer) in my 48 member golf league. Within the weekly league game, we also have a bigger money side skins game with about 16-18 people. (In addition to my personal/side/partner and about 12 other bets)

Anyway, we've got one guy who plays really slow. He's been told about it "nicely" and not so nicely numerous times, to no avail. He's retired so he's able to get to the course early and once most of the folks are assembled, he jumps on the tee to be the first group out. It's the head of the snake, holding up the entire freaking golf course. He has never waved a faster group through in his life. By the time they finish there are at least 3 holes open in front of them.

Last week, his partner was running late so all of us "side skins" boys got in front of this guy. My group was directly in front of him, we were playing a fivesome, they were a twosome. Now, under normal conditions, I would always wave a twosome through if there are open holes (there weren't). But, since this was the first time this slowpoke had ever waited to hit a golf shot, we pretended he wasn't there.

By the way, they barely kept pace with our FIVESOME.

Apparently this guy was "insulted." He left immediately after playing. But, here's the kicker. He decided (after playing poorly) that he wasn't going to participate in the side skin pot. He left, and took his money ($50) with him.

Yesterday, I get an Email from the President of our league. Apparently he got an earful from our offended slowpoke. He asked if I (as an officer) would offer an apology for insulting our fellow member. I replied that the issue needs to be addressed with a meeting of everyone involved.

Personally, I like this guy. Although I never want to golf with or behind him again. We finished last weeks round at least 30 minutes quicker than normal.

So, there are two issues here.

1. How would you handle this slow play situation if you were in my position? Would you apologize for holding him up?

2. What about the side skins game? I say ban him from the game.

Has anyone had to deal with a situation like this.

Our league plays tomorrow, I'm just looking for some thoughts/opinions.

[TheNatural]

I had posted this about a year and a half ago (when it happened) on another forum. I just want to compare responses, after a while, I'll tell you how the issue was resolved......... OK, here's the deal. I'm an officer (Treasurer) in my 48 member golf league. Within the weekly league game, we also have a bigger money side skins game with about 16-18 people. (In addition to my personal/side/partner and about 12 other bets) Anyway, we've got one guy who plays really slow. He's been told about it "nicely" and not so nicely numerous times, to no avail. He's retired so he's able to get to the course early and once most of the folks are assembled, he jumps on the tee to be the first group out. It's the head of the snake, holding up the entire freaking golf course. He has never waved a faster group through in his life. By the time they finish there are at least 3 holes open in front of them. Last week, his partner was running late so all of us "side skins" boys got in front of this guy. My group was directly in front of him, we were playing a fivesome, they were a twosome. Now, under normal conditions, I would always wave a twosome through if there are open holes (there weren't). But, since this was the first time this slowpoke had ever waited to hit a golf shot, we pretended he wasn't there. By the way, they barely kept pace with our FIVESOME. Apparently this guy was "insulted." He left immediately after playing. But, here's the kicker. He decided (after playing poorly) that he wasn't going to participate in the side skin pot. He left, and took his money ($50) with him. Yesterday, I get an Email from the President of our league. Apparently he got an earful from our offended slowpoke. He asked if I (as an officer) would offer an apology for insulting our fellow member. I replied that the issue needs to be addressed with a meeting of everyone involved. Personally, I like this guy. Although I never want to golf with or behind him again. We finished last weeks round at least 30 minutes quicker than normal. So, there are two issues here. 1. How would you handle this slow play situation if you were in my position? Would you apologize for holding him up? 2. What about the side skins game? I say ban him from the game. Has anyone had to deal with a situation like this. Our league plays tomorrow, I'm just looking for some thoughts/opinions.

1. No apology, I would love to get in front of these tools and slow to a crawl, but I still couldnt play that slow, I would have to bring some work with me ,,,like my taxes and do them on the green. 2. Let him play but enforce a time rule for every stroke.

[thr33]

To the poster above, I'd ban him from the skins game and offer him an apology for if he agrees to apologize to you for every time he held you up.

Slow play kills my tempo/game as well but the worst experience happened last season while playing a local muni. I got stuck behind a foursome of older (mid 50's) gentlemen who would spend 10 min reading the green before putting the ball off the green (yes, i actually watched this happen twice and it wasn't a downhill putt). As frustrating as it was, we never hit into them nor approached them during the round. On the 14th hole, a par 5, my friend was laying up his 2nd shot when the ball ricocheted off a large rock causing it to bounce forward to about 40 yards from the green. They waited for us at the next hole and told us that we had no right to hit in to them, that they were keeping up with the pace of play, and us disrespectful kids should stay off the course. We were so flabbergasted that we didn't know what to say...oh and the group that started right before them was already off the course :(

PS- references to failblog and barney stinson always make me laugh. thanks iacas :P

[RocketSauce]

I had posted this about a year and a half ago (when it happened) on another forum. I just want to compare responses, after a while, I'll tell you how the issue was resolved......... OK, here's the deal. I'm an officer (Treasurer) in my 48 member golf league. Within the weekly league game, we also have a bigger money side skins game with about 16-18 people. (In addition to my personal/side/partner and about 12 other bets) Anyway, we've got one guy who plays really slow. He's been told about it "nicely" and not so nicely numerous times, to no avail. He's retired so he's able to get to the course early and once most of the folks are assembled, he jumps on the tee to be the first group out. It's the head of the snake, holding up the entire freaking golf course. He has never waved a faster group through in his life. By the time they finish there are at least 3 holes open in front of them. Last week, his partner was running late so all of us "side skins" boys got in front of this guy. My group was directly in front of him, we were playing a fivesome, they were a twosome. Now, under normal conditions, I would always wave a twosome through if there are open holes (there weren't). But, since this was the first time this slowpoke had ever waited to hit a golf shot, we pretended he wasn't there. By the way, they barely kept pace with our FIVESOME. Apparently this guy was "insulted." He left immediately after playing. But, here's the kicker. He decided (after playing poorly) that he wasn't going to participate in the side skin pot. He left, and took his money ($50) with him. Yesterday, I get an Email from the President of our league. Apparently he got an earful from our offended slowpoke. He asked if I (as an officer) would offer an apology for insulting our fellow member. I replied that the issue needs to be addressed with a meeting of everyone involved. Personally, I like this guy. Although I never want to golf with or behind him again. We finished last weeks round at least 30 minutes quicker than normal. So, there are two issues here. 1. How would you handle this slow play situation if you were in my position? Would you apologize for holding him up? 2. What about the side skins game? I say ban him from the game. Has anyone had to deal with a situation like this. Our league plays tomorrow, I'm just looking for some thoughts/opinions.

wow, thats an interesting post. im curious as to how it was handled in the end. i think you did the correct thing. he was told NUMEROUS times to pick up the pace and he never listened. but when he is finally held up, he gets pissed off and leaves??? i think you did the right thing by teaching him a lesson. maybe this time he will get the hint (i doubt it though)... i say either ban him or suspend him. i would not apologize. has he ever apologized??? then why should you?

[Damien45]

I had posted this about a year and a half ago (when it happened) on another forum. I just want to compare responses, after a while, I'll tell you how the issue was resolved......... So, there are two issues here. 1. How would you handle this slow play situation if you were in my position? Would you apologize for holding him up? 2. What about the side skins game? I say ban him from the game. Has anyone had to deal with a situation like this. Our league plays tomorrow, I'm just looking for some thoughts/opinions.

My take on the two issues are this:

1) Since the group has complained numerous times regarding his pace of play, the Officers need to address it. Granted, as an O yourself, I would bring it up to the Pres/Vice Pres about him being required to appologize to the whole group in addition to your appology to him. Be the better man and appologize. Just make sure the true point is made that no slow play will be allowed. 2) Removing his money from the skins pool after the round is played is stealing. Well to me at least. That should be an automatic ban.

[Fourputt]

Good for him! Time to start giving the marshalls more power. Better to have 1 slow group be angry and not return rather than multiple groups that play behind the turtles be angry and not return.

That can be one of the problems, no doubt.

so i would like to know who decided golf was supposed to be a fast paced game. If you cannot go out and enjoy the day because you are watching the clock then stay home and be a couch potato. I played competitive golf in college and most of our rounds took anywhere from 5 to 6 hours to play 18 holes. It's the fact that we were out there playing a game and not in the classroom or at work that we liked. We would get to par 3's that were backed up with 1 group on the green and 2 on the tee.

With an attitude like this they let you pass this sage advice on to your students????

The "" around your "appropriate" pace iacas are the key to this whole discussion. Its all relative. Who makes the call to what an "appropriate" pace is? Maybe all the guys complaining in this thread are blisteringly fast paced guys who have no patience?

No it is not personal opinion. Every course I play at has a pace of play policy, usually clearly posted in the pro shop or near the first tee. Unfortunately, most are better at setting policy than they are at enforcing it.

This is golf! and pace of play should not be an issue at all. Like i have said before, if you are out there and watching the clock you are playing the wrong sport. You don't hear baseball fans yelling because they had to sit at the ball park for 6 hours because the final score was 17-11 and neither team could pitch or play any defense. Just live with it and worry about you own game and not someone elses. If your game is like mine you will have plenty to worry about trying to get better.

Pace of play IS an issue because people like you show no interest in changing the status quo. And now you are coaching golfers who will feel that if Coach says it's ok, then it must be good.

My opinion on the topic: There are two main reasons for the increasing incidence of slow play... lack of education and lack of enforcement. Most players need to be coached on good place of play practices. Whether that's a list posted prominently around the course, a sheet handed out with the scorecard, coaching by a course assistant when the player is observed to be in violation (the worst idea because it is reactive instead of pro-active), or some combination of these ideas, there needs to be some kind of information disseminated. We aren't born with the instincts for playing golf so education is necessary, and that includes all forms of etiquette. You can post that a round of golf is expected to be played in 4:20, but player can't simply be expected to know HOW to accomplish that without being taught some guidelines. There are specific pace of play procedures which a player can follow if he knows what they are. So let's first teach people how to achieve the goal. Next, it's the course's responsibility to publish and enforce their pace of play regulations. Not only to enforce them, but to make certain that their clientele is aware that the rules WILL be enforced. That eliminates any argument that they didn't know or understand the policy. I'm firmly on the side of the faction here who feel that it's better to alienate one or two groups of slow players than it is to ignore them and piss off the rest of the course full of average to fast players. That's my first two cents worth.... there may be more to come.

[glduffey]

I feel your pain.........believe me,,,,,,,,,,,

[flopdarock]

i played behind a 4some today that was pretty quick... they caught up to a single that let them play thru... apparently a marshall yelled at the guy cuz someone complained that he was playing too slowly... i eventually caught up to the guy right after the 4some played thru and we ended up playing together... he wasnt a very good player... and there was a few times i felt like leaving him behind... he wasnt having a good day... but since i had nowhere to go and nobody was behind us... i decided to stick it out... we finished the round in under 4 hrs... i guess i influenced his pace of play cuz he even picked up a few times and saw that most of the time i was waiting on him