Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

[PEZGolf]

Its a tossup but I'm going with Tiger on this one.

It appears to me----NO SURPRISE---that there is a generational gap on the responses: older people favoring Nicklaus and younger ones Tiger. This is understandable as each wants his hero to be #1. That is one reason that when I have been asked to name THE Greatest Golfer of All Time, I respond that there are 30, and I then list them in alphabetic order, and not by numbers, so there is NO #1. AND-------------ladies,take note-----my list of 30 includes Joyce Wethered, THE BABE, Patty Berg, Betsy Rawls, Louise Suggs, Mickey Wright, Kathy Whitworth, Nancy Lopez, and Annika. Now, if someone wants me to name The Greatest Male Golfer of All Time, then, obvioulsy, the alphabetic list would be limited to MEN only.

[Oci8]

Several people I know started playing because of TW. That's something.

[Big Sean]

I don't feel I know enough about golf to answer this question, but I am going with Tiger.

[Alex B]

It appears to me----NO SURPRISE---that there is a generational gap on the responses: older people favoring Nicklaus and younger ones Tiger. This is understandable as each wants his hero to be #1. That is one reason that when I have been asked to name THE Greatest Golfer of All Time, I respond that there are 30, and I then list them in alphabetic order, and not by numbers, so there is NO #1. AND-------------ladies,take note-----my list of 30 includes Joyce Wethered, THE BABE, Patty Berg, Betsy Rawls, Louise Suggs, Mickey Wright, Kathy Whitworth, Nancy Lopez, and Annika. Now, if someone wants me to name The Greatest Male Golfer of All Time, then, obvioulsy, the alphabetic list would be limited to MEN only.

I don't want to sound sexist here (I love women's golf), but the original question asks who is the

greatest golfer . It does not qualify on the basis of sex. Obviously, any of the best male golfers in history would beat the best female golfers in history. Therefore, IMO, the question de facto is restricted to male golfers. As for my answer to the question, I'd go with a group of Tiger, Jack, Hogan, Jones, and Vardon. (Quick note tangential to the question: It irritates me when golfers are classified solely on the basis of major championship victories, because certain majors either did not exist or were not financially practical to play at the time of a certain player. Consider Harry Vardon, for instance: in addition to winning six Open Championships, he crossed the Atlantic to play in the US Open three times, winning in 1900 and finishing second in 1913 (the famous playoff with Ray and Ouimet) and in 1920 (by a stroke to Ray). The PGA Championship was created only at the tail end of his career, and the Masters established long after he was done playing. Boiling Vardon's career down to the figure of seven majors wins does not only understate his greatness, but gives an inaccurate assessment of his career. Comparing major championship victories is only fruitful starting around 1930; in fact, major championships yield a truly accurate portrait of a golfer only after 1960, when Americans began to consistently compete in the Open Championship.)

[PEZGolf]

I don't want to sound sexist here (I love women's golf), but the original question asks who is the

You are right. Look at Walter Hagen's record----he won 11 Major Championships before the Masters started in 1934---2 US Opens, 4 Open Championships, and 5 PGA Championships. So if we take Jack's 18 and subtract 6 Masters, that leaves 12. Take Tiger's 13 and subtract 4 Masters, that leaves 9. So the revised totals are as follows:

Jack 12; THE HAIG 11; Tiger 9. Tiger is in third place, and needs to win 2 Majors other than the Masters to tie Hagen.

[PEZGolf]

You are right. Look at Walter Hagen's record----he won 11 Major Championships before the Masters started in 1934---2 US Opens, 4 Open Championships, and 5 PGA Championships. So if we take Jack's 18 and subtract 6 Masters, that leaves 12. Take Tiger's 13 and subtract 4 Masters, that leaves 9. So the revised totals are as follows:

And to complete the process, if we subtract PGA Championships, we get these revised figures: Jack 7; Vardon 7; Hagen 6; Woods 5.

[Alex B]

You are right. Look at Walter Hagen's record----he won 11 Major Championships before the Masters started in 1934---2 US Opens, 4 Open Championships, and 5 PGA Championships. So if we take Jack's 18 and subtract 6 Masters, that leaves 12. Take Tiger's 13 and subtract 4 Masters, that leaves 9. So the revised totals are as follows:

Of course, if we take this methodology to its logical extreme, we'd have to get rid of all the majors except for the Open Championship (after all, it was the only one that existed for 35 years).

My idea has always been to define the period during which a golfer is competitive (for Nicklaus, something like 1960-1988), and find his winning percentage in majors for that time period. Of course, defining the competitive period (necessary to have majors played at age 65 not hurt a golfer's percentage) is highly subjective. I'll try this winning percentage method for the five greats I mentioned earlier: Nicklaus, Woods, Vardon, Hogan, and Jones. (Notes: I will include the US and British Amateurs for Jones only. The years for Harry Vardon are a bit iffy.) Nicklaus (1960-1988): 18 wins in 116 starts = 15.5% Woods (1996-present): 14 wins in 49 starts = 28.6% Vardon (1893-1922): 7 wins in 28 starts = 25.0% Hogan (1939-1960): 9 wins in 41 starts = 22.0% Jones (1916-1930): 13 wins in 31 starts = 41.9% Obviously, this is purely theoretical and subjective. One could argue it lacks any value. I think, however, it provides credence to the idea that the greatest golfer of all time may be neither Jack nor Tiger.

[Chi_Chi]

Tiger is the man...and the greatest.

[PEZGolf]

Of course, if we take this methodology to its logical extreme, we'd have to get rid of all the majors except for the Open Championship (after all, it was the only one that existed for 35 years).

Good point about the percentage won. You know what is amazing about Hogan? He had two careers---pre and post accident, and he was arguably a better player (based on results) after the accident than he was before. He won all of his US Opens after 1948, and won 4 in 6 years. And of course, he won his one and only Open Championship in 1953---again after the car accident. As you probably know, he said ahead of time, he would play in that Open one time only. He kept his word---won it, set a course record and a tournament record, and won the hearts and admiration of the Scots as they called him the "Wee Ice Mon".

To me, the only interesting consequence of this thread is that it makes some casual fans of golf aware that there is more to golf than Jack and Tiger. Whether they will care or not, I cannot tell, but at least they cannot say they were not told about the Greats of the past.

[Elevation]

At this point of 32 yrs old in his career Tiger is better....more majors, more wins, 3 US Amateurs vs 2 etc. BUT I can't hand off the title as best of all time until he wins his 19th major. And it WILL happen.

[PEZGolf]

At this point of 32 yrs old in his career Tiger is better....more majors, more wins, 3 US Amateurs vs 2 etc. BUT I can't hand off the title as best of all time until he wins his 19th major. And it WILL happen.

Time will tell, as it always does.

[Damn Yankee]

Jack is definately an Icon, and set in stone the scales by which all other Champions will be weighed and measured. Tiger's game is phenominal and should he continue to play at this caliber, I believe he will pass Jack.

[Archie]

Tiger for the short game.

[pnesam07]

tiger by far

[Bflynn23]

I would have to choose Tiger Woods as being the greatest. Tiger's competion is stronger and the courses seem tougher than they used to be.

[oooasdf]

Tiger for now, no question

[ynvmygp]

i have had this discusion with guys from my work, i believe tiger is, and will be, the best we will see. he is a beast, nothing else really to say

[dawg28]

what is wrong with everybody? there is no dought Jack Nicklaus is the best. he has 78 top 5 finishes. Tiger has like 25.
Jack Nicklaus is the best and always will be the best. Saying tiger's better than Jack is like saying Lebron James is better than Michael Jordan.