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Posted
I'm starting to wonder if my lie angles are off. For some reason, the last few rounds, I've sprayed more than my fair share of shots. Then I noticed: it's my 56°, my 47°, my 8-iron, and my 4-iron. So I'm starting to wonder if I should get my lie angles checked.

But then I need to know when to do this. I'm going to have a lesson in a little more than a week. Should I get them checked (and fixed, if appropriate) before my lesson, or should I show it to my instructor and see if he has any suggestions on what angles (etc)?

Other than fittings, I've never had these checked, so I have no idea what I should expect, or even how it works. Are there dynamic lie fittings for existing clubs?

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Tour Edge Exotics C723 21 degree hybrid.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

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Posted
For forged clubs, the lie angles are always a concern. More so if you hit off mats at the driving range. I got mine checked last week and found that 5 of them were off by a full degree. I usually get mine checked twice a season. The factory lies might also be bad for you, so have the instructor take a look at them. He should measure you, and have a lie board with impact strips for the sole to show you what youre doing.

Generally, if your hitting balls off of the toe, the clubs might be too flat. Torwards the heel, and they might be too unpright. But also, you might be doing something wrong in your address or swing, which is why having a pro there might be handy.
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Titleist 909 D2 9.5 Degree Driver| Titleist 906f4 13.5 degree 3-Wood | Titleist 909 17 & 21 degree hybrid | Titleist AP2 irons
Titleist Vokey Wedges - 52 & 58 | Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2 Putter | ProV1 Ball

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Posted
For forged clubs, the lie angles are always a concern. More so if you hit off mats at the driving range. I got mine checked last week and found that 5 of them were off by a full degree. I usually get mine checked twice a season. The factory lies might also be bad for you, so have the instructor take a look at them. He should measure you, and have a lie board with impact strips for the sole to show you what youre doing.

I agree. In forged irons, over time, the angles can change from hitting off mats or hard pan,etc... I also had mine checked about a month ago at Golfsmith and I had about 5 or 6 that were at least a half degree off and some were more.

Bryan A
"Your desire to change must be greater than your desire to stay the same"

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Posted
I'm starting to wonder if my lie angles are off. For some reason, the last few rounds, I've sprayed more than my fair share of shots. Then I noticed: it's my 56°, my 47°, my 8-iron, and my 4-iron. So I'm starting to wonder if I should get my lie angles checked.

I was pretty superised how off my irons were in the lie and loft department when I bought them. Went and got them adjusted for lie and at the same time had them bend them to the correct lofts.

The guy doing the adjusting for me carries a $100 bill for the person who says there irons are spot on coming straight from the factory. He says every single set has more then 50% of the irons off in lie and loft.
DBake
Titleist 909D3 10.5* Tour Green 89 Stiff
Titleist 906F2 15* v2 85 Stiff
Mizuno MP-30 2-PW S300
Mizuno MP-R 52* & 59*Scotty Cameron Studio Design 1.5Titleist Pro V1Leupold GX-1The Home Course (75.7/130)

Posted
DBake where is that shop???? I have some irons for him to check out!!! I know they are spot on!!!! I have measured them myself then i bent them to spec!!!! We like to forget that we are dealing with pieces of metal and it is an art not a science so things are not always dead on, you have to have some kind of manufacturing tolerances!!!! Also what is he using to measure them?? I hope it is not a loft/lie machine because they are not very accurate!! You need a much more precise machine for reliable readings!!!

Whats in the bag?
Driver = Wishon Golf 949mc 9.75*/.5* Closed Face Angle
Fairway Wood = Wishon Golf 915 F/H 16* Square Face Angle
Wood Shafts = Wishon Golf Pro Flight EXP 85g Stiff Flex
Hybrids = Wishon Golf 331H 21* & 24*Hybrid Shafts = Wishon Golf GI335 Tour Weight 92g Stiff FlexIrons = Wishon...


Posted

I say definitely get them checked, I posted a similar thread recently and just had them checked and most were 4-5 degrees upright. The guy said it was the about the worst he had ever seen. He told me that leaving your clubs in your trunk in the summer can sometimes cause them to bend a lot because the temps can get up to 200... *And I hit off mats all winter long*

I was having problems with a pull and or hook and decided to get them checked. The interesting thing now is that after two years of trying to hit more of a push draw and failing, all I can hit with these irons now is a push at least for now. The clubs are set to standard lie angles now and all of my compensations cause the ball to shoot right without much spin.

The moral of the story is that it's too bad that the swing that I naturally wanted to use that pulled the ball was probably more along the lines of a proper swing but I didn't know it because my clubs were bent for someone about 6'7 or nine inches taller than me.


Posted
If you are spraying them left and right, I would not suspect the lie angle, especially if the same club is going both directions. That would make me think swing consistency. If all your shots with your irons are going one way, then I could see the lie angle being off.

See what the pro thinks during your lesson, I think that makes the most sense.

WTIB:
Callaway FT-9 Tour 9.5° Scads of shafts - now: Kai'li 63 stiff
Tour Edge Exotics 3 & 5 FW
Callaway X-22 Tour irons
Bobby Jones 3 & 4 hybridsRife Abaco/Odyessy Black Series i9 puttersWith a few more hangin' around


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    • He's using a driver swing, while I used the iron swing. Bryson goes from about 65° B to 15° B, hence the 50°. If you bend your right elbow, you're going to pull your hands across your chest some. Conversely, if you abduct your right arm and hold onto a grip with your left arm, you can see how extending the right elbow as we do in the golf swing during the downswing will "pull" the right shoulder/humerus forward (adducting it, as going from 65° to 15° of abduction is). Even people who pull their right shoulder WAY too far around them eventually get it "back in front" when their right arm/elbow extends. So, such a motion shows up as shoulder adduction even though the movement that causes it is just widening the trail elbow. The left hand on the grip almost "pulls" the hands forward as the left arm can't stretch much (there's some shoulder protraction, but that's almost maxed out at P4). Oh, I downloaded it and watched it (and commented there) before he blocked me. It's what led to him posting the comment in the "update" above. 😄  Single shoulder range of 75°, and that's going out well into the follow-through. 50° Max range up to impact. Manavian's video is bad. He keeps saying "midline" which is just a horrible way to look at it. He also kept saying that the club was moving that amount — also wrong. Adding left and right together is really freaking dumb. Another golf instructor said "That's like saying the player has 100 degrees of knee bend (adding left knee bend to right knee bend) 🤦‍♂️" (similar to what the biomechanist said about squatting). Also, see my post above about elbow bend. That's why Plummer’s alignment stick demo is so intellectually dishonest. A golfer can't get anywhere near that position on the left with his left hand on the alignment stick (quoted below).  
    • That makes no sense at all.  so, I watched that Instagram. Here is a summary...  Bryson.... Address: Trail Shoulder 0 degrees adduction. P4: Trail Shoulder 65-deg abduction. Impact: Right shoulder 15-deg abduction. P9: 10 degrees adduction. Rory... Address: Trail Shoulder 16 degrees adduction. P4: Trail Shoulder 26 degrees abduction. Impact: Right shoulder 0 degrees abduction.  P9: 18 degrees of adduction.  DJ... Address: Trail Shoulder 4 degrees adduction. P4: Trail Shoulder 42 degrees abduction. Impact: Right shoulder 2 degrees abduction.  P9: 15 degrees of adduction.  Their point is that arm doesn't stay on the trail side. That the arms have to get across the chest from P4 to P9. I mean they do. What matters is the rate of which it happens relative to the position of the swing. The trail shoulder at P9 is not abducted a lot. The range of that total abduction movement is like 40 to 70 degrees. Bryson might be an outlier. Rory might be an outlier as well.  A couple of points.  1. None of them had any adduction at impact. So, this tells me the trail arms stays on the trail side of the body at impact. Is it moving towards lead shoulder, yes. It doesn't happen till post impact. The right side of the body is moving towards the target, so the arms don't have to as much as people think.  2. Trail shoulder adduction from Impact to P9 is 18 to 25 degrees.  3. P9 adduction of the trail shoulder is only about 2 to 12 degrees more adducted than at address. The arms/hands stay in front of the chest a long-time post impact. If Rory, from his address position just rotated his body towards the target and raised up his arms so he is at P9. He basically didn't have to move his trail arm further across his chest than where he started at address. Visualize that for a bit. I bet for people who tend to stall and drag their arms across their body to hit the ball, that would emphasize how much the arms stay in front of the body and how much you have to turn.             
    • Do you know how Manavian is measuring his shoulder adduction-abduction that purports to demonstrate 50 degrees or motion in Bryson's downswing? I know the broader biomechanics research/scientific literature on this suggests shoulder adduction-abduction is only a modest contributor of force generation in the downswing, so I'm definitely not convinced by anything he's arguing, I'm just curious how different people can be claiming to use ostensibly the same "data" to tell a much different story.
    • I have an update… I don't have much of a response, because the fact that they would ADD the numbers for the lead and trail shoulder together… I mean, wow. I was giving them too much credit. Nobody would think to assume they were doing THAT. That's beyond comical. One of the biomechanists I talked to put it this way: "So if I squatted down and went from 180 to 90 deg knee angle, then I would say 180 deg range of motion because I have two knees?" I'd type more (maybe), but honestly, I'm laughing a bit too hard. 🤣 Update: Mini Manavian blocked me on Instagram, so I cannot see his post showing Bryson with about 50° of range of motion (with a driver) from P4 to P7, and 75° only if you go out to the mid-follow-through. What a terrible loss for me. 😉 
    • Thanks, interesting to read. The swing is definitely very timing dependent. I hit it consistently I guess but consistently bad.    
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