When do you lag putt?

[Leftygolfer]

I use the line so all I think about is speed when I am in my routine.

See what you mean though. Thanks for the thought

[Fourputt]

Just a general question for the forum:

Never. I'm trying to make every putt. Sometimes I'm more cautious on some putts than I am on others, but I'm never trying not to make one. That seems to me like a silly way to play golf.

[Leftygolfer]

Trying not to make one is not the same as lag putting. From 70 feet, you leave it 18 inches short, will you be mad? "**** I didn't give it a chance" I don't think so.

[pjsnyc]

Never. I'm trying to make every putt. Sometimes I'm more cautious on some putts than I am on others, but I'm never trying not to make one. That seems to me like a silly way to play golf.

I think my original post was a little misleading. I'm not trying to NOT make the putt. I am, however, trying to get it into a 4 or 5 foot circle (the hole is obviously inside the circle so if the ball goes in - GREAT!)

Trying not to make one is not the same as lag putting. From 70 feet, you leave it 18 inches short, will you be mad? "**** I didn't give it a chance" I don't think so.

My feelings exactly

[ScottRempel]

Trying not to make one is not the same as lag putting. From 70 feet, you leave it 18 inches short, will you be mad? "**** I didn't give it a chance" I don't think so.

Mad is not the correct word perhaps...but upset? Sure. Now if I was 18 inches past the hole I'd feel a lot better about the putt...at least I gave it a go. As you can tell, I agree with the people here that are trying to make everything. To me, a lag putt is just a long putt...speed being possibly more crucial to ensure that you don't go sailing past the hole. On a 5 foot putt with a slight break I may be inclined to give it a bit more speed and straighten my line out. On a long putt I'm likely going to stick with the thought of trying to hit it a foot or so past the hole, and give the putt the break it needs.

Again, as others have said, you should always be trying to hit with a speed that will take your ball slightly past the hole. Even if you have a lightning fast downhill putt, you shouldn't be trying to leave it short! Sure you aren't going to pound it at the hole, but you are going to try to nudge it with just the right amount of speed to get it to roll past the hole (or hopefully in of the line was right). If you are always trying to hit with enough speed to get past the hole, then all you need to do is pick a good line (why not take the time to take your best guess at the correct line...as opposed to just hitting it in the general direction of the hole).

[bogeyhitter25]

I will usually only lag a putt to a 2 foot radius if it's

a) 30+ feet, where I know I'm sometimes known to three-putt
or
b) if I'm in a match and my partner is putting for bogey and I'm putting for birdie

[pjsnyc]

Thanks for the feedback guys and gals. I guess I'm just gonna have to stick it close so I'm never left with the decision anymore

[iacas]

Perhaps a better way to ask the question would be - when are you aggressive with your putts? (uphill or downhill).

I'm equally aggressive on every putt, regardless of the length or the slopes. Dave Pelz said the ideal speed for a putt is one that goes 17 inches past the hole, and that's the speed I try to put on every putt.

And I'm still trying to hole every putt.

Do you people really think about making a 70 foot putt?

Yes.

Of course I like making the long ones but there is a different sort of feeling over a 15 foot and 60 foot putt. If I get a little agressive with the 15 footer I will have 3 feet coming back but if I am 60 feet away that turns into 10.

I don't think about "being aggressive." My speed's the same regardless of the length of the putt. That's as "aggressive" as I want or need to be.

I think my original post was a little misleading. I'm not trying to NOT make the putt. I am, however, trying to get it into a 4 or 5 foot circle (the hole is obviously inside the circle so if the ball goes in - GREAT!)

You're hurting yourself. Aim for the smallest target. Guys who shoot rifles or handguns for a living don't just aim "somewhere in the bullseye." They aim for the exact middle of the bullseye.

Same with guys who shoot pool - they don't like potting balls to the edges of the pocket if they can avoid it. Aim small, miss small. You're likely hurting yourself those times you're looking to die the ball in a 4-5 foot circle. Miss that by two feet and you've got a seven footer. Miss the hole by two feet and you've got a two or three footer.

[Eeryck]

Perfect example was yesterday - first hole, about a 35 ft birdie putt. I was trying to decide if I wanted to be conservative and go for the par OR be aggressive and try to make birdie. Of course I decided to go for it, but ended up something like 15 ft coming back which I missed.

There is only one shot to hit here the one that puts the putt 17in. past the hole on line.

The best putting advice I ever read was putt like a little kid playing mini golf where you belive you can make a hole-in-one every time. If you miss, then you know you are going to make the ball in the hole the next time.

Do you people really think about making a 70 foot putt?

Every single putt has a chance to go in.

Yes, but my point was, you do NOT think about both of these things while making your stroke. Imagine your putter was just a pendulum on a string hanging from an A-frame. You would initially visualize the entire putt, speed and line, yes, but when the time actually comes, you would:

After I make my alignment, I take one last look at the hole. If I subconciously make an adjustment I trust it and fire. I suspect our brains do do both at the same time if we let them.

Trying not to make one is not the same as lag putting. From 70 feet, you leave it 18 inches short, will you be mad? "**** I didn't give it a chance" I don't think so.

I am more upset with this putt than any. Especially if it dies on line to the hole. I did not commit to the swing. It gives me the same feeling as a fat pitch shot.

Last year I thought I was a terrible putter. I putted terribly. This year I have changed my focus to believe I can hole putts and am an excelent putter and I practice putts that make me belive this. It has worked. -E

[MiniMoe]

I'm trying to make every putt but the longer the putt, the more I focus on good speed. If the putt is three feet, I can be more aggressive. On longer putts, I'm trying to make the putt, but with just enough speed to get the ball to the hole. I don't want to consistently hit it three feet past the hole from 25 feet. I don't like that much pressure.

[Williamevanl]

I think this is a better question then people are making it out to be. I've heard commentators on the golf channel say a number of times things along the lines of I hope he isn't focusing to much on sinking it from there. I can't recall how they say it but it sounds like if you at a certain distance and you just set up to sink the ball everytime in some situations you are going to be in pretty bad shape if you miss slightly.

I guess as mentioned it is a question of conservative vs aggresive but think how many times you see pro's come up short. I think an awful lot are conservative from 20+ feet out.

[pjsnyc]

...You're hurting yourself. Aim for the smallest target. Guys who shoot rifles or handguns for a living don't just aim "somewhere in the bullseye." They aim for the exact middle of the bullseye....Aim small, miss small. You're likely hurting yourself those times you're looking to die the ball in a 4-5 foot circle. Miss that by two feet and you've got a seven footer. Miss the hole by two feet and you've got a two or three footer.

I understand where you're coming from. I really do. I even subscribe to the notion that the optimal speed for a putt to fall is for it to end up a foot and a half past the hole. Ask any of my normal playing partners - I tend to get very 'mathematical' when I approach the game.

Taking that into consideration, don't you think the approach described in my original post also takes into account mathematics? As in - the probability of making a 50+ ft. putt is pretty low, but the probability of making a 50+ ft. putt to a 5 ft. circle is higher (and if I get it into that circle, the probability of the ball dropping is infinity percent higher?). I dunno, I guess its just hard to fight those demons. I really want to sink EVERY PUTT FROM ANYWHERE. But its really hard to fight realistic odds as well.

[iacas]

Taking that into consideration, don't you think the approach described in my original post also takes into account mathematics? As in - the probability of making a 50+ ft. putt is pretty low, but the probability of making a 50+ ft. putt to a 5 ft. circle is higher (and if I get it into that circle, the probability of the ball dropping is infinity percent higher?).

No, because the odds of leaving yourself a longer second putt increase the bigger your original target is.

And any admission that you aren't really trying to hole the putt or that you don't think you can hole the putt is bad for your putting. I can be fairly mathematical as well, but the experimental data tells you that the smaller your target, the smaller your misses tend to be. We as humans are incredibly talented, and good putters never talk about aiming for a five-foot circle. It lets you get sloppy, and that's no way to putt. Putt five balls to a tee stuck in the ground sometime. Now putt them to a five foot circle. They're gonna be grouped together more closely when you putt to the tee.

[Eeryck]

Taking that into consideration, don't you think the approach described in my original post also takes into account mathematics? As in - the probability of making a 50+ ft. putt is pretty low, but the probability of making a 50+ ft. putt to a 5 ft. circle is higher (and if I get it into that circle, the probability of the ball dropping is infinity percent higher?).

The objective of putting is not to get it close. The objective of putting is to hole out. If you putt with the method that iacas is describing you will see that while aiming and the hole and intending to hole out with a speed of 17in past the hole.

If he misses by a margin of 100% he is 17 inches short. If his line is off left or right he could be 17 inches left of right. 17inch radius around the hole is roughly a 3 foot diameter circle around the hole. It is why I take that focus as well. The goal is of course to make it and hit the hole, but the setup automatically leaves you in a good position. Regarding probability you need a large sample size for the numbers to come out right. Your ability to make consecutive 50 footers is the same chance for each one. But this is not even worth considering. If you don't believe you can make the putt, there is a good chance you will miss. If you lower your target to a 5 foot radius circle, which is 10 foot diameter the same 100% miss could leave you with a 10 footer. Even it if was a 5 foot diameter circle is going to leave you with longer second putts than if you attempted to always hole out. Regards, -E

[Fourputt]

Putt five balls to a tee stuck in the ground sometime. Now putt them to a five foot circle. They're gonna be grouped together more closely when you putt to the tee.

Putting to a tee is good practice any time, better even than putting to a hole. I find that after a practice session using a tee for a target, the hole looks huge.

[MI Rob]

I try to make every putt. If i miss, usually it will come close for a somewhat easy two putt.