How do you keep score?

[jonnythan]

That might just be the worst analogy I've ever heard. That's why its called batting practice, because it's not done during game time, but whatever, I don't think anyone here is uptight or trying to argue. What you do on the course will not affect our lives in any way. I think all anyone is trying to say is to give honesty a try, you'll feel so much better knowing that your score was legit.

If some kids go out to the local diamond and play a pickup game of baseball, but don't have an umpire and give each other 6 balls instead of 4 because they can't pitch very well, will you call them all cheaters?

Of course not. They're playing baseball. Not MLB rules, but hell... NL "baseball" rules are different from AL "baseball" rules are different from NCAA "baseball" rules. USGA rules are different from "golf" rules for other organizations - and quite possibly a little different from the "golf" rules the foursome over on the 12th tee are playing. No one has the right to say that their rules, and only their rules, constitute the game of golf. If you're holding a golf club and hitting a Titleist on a golf course, you're golfing as far as I'm concerned. You play by whatever rules make you happy and don't interfere with anyone else's enjoyment of the game.

[xringx]

Glad to see my question has sparked a lot of good, honest debate....

I truely have learned something from this and it has helped me define something for myself, so thank you all.....

Here is my "take"

I play to have fun...I dont really care what my handicap is...but I really care about improving, hence the reason I will drop a ball and retry a shot 2, 3 times, rehit a tee shot (not very often)... I do these things to improve my game, but not my score..

The only other people I play with are my wife and a couple of co-workers every now and then..... My wife plays the same way and my co-workers seem to be the same also. 1 for sure keeps score but he doesnt seem opposed to rehitting a tee shot or a bad iron. I dont pay attention to how he scores his game though.

[iacas]

If some kids go out to the local diamond and play a pickup game of baseball, but don't have an umpire and give each other 6 balls instead of 4 because they can't pitch very well, will you call them all cheaters?

Does baseball have one standard ruling body. Is there anything like golf's handicapping system in baseball at any level?

The analogy falls apart pretty quickly.

NL "baseball" rules are different from AL "baseball" rules are different from NCAA "baseball" rules. USGA rules are different from "golf" rules for other organizations - and quite possibly a little different from the "golf" rules the foursome over on the 12th tee are playing.

Go ahead and try to find the differences. The USGA and R&A; long ago agreed to a standard rulebook.

No one has the right to say that their rules, and only their rules, constitute the game of golf.

The USGA does. And outside the U.S., the R&A; does.

[billm408]

I'm familiar with stroke/medal play, match play and the Stapleford system.
But that's the beauty of golf- there's no rule that says you have to play by the rules.

[mdl]

So, what you’re really saying is that you’re not actually a “13,” but more like a bogey plus golfer… right?

Ha. I don't know how taking an extra shot off the tee every couple rounds turns an average 85 into an average 90+. Let's do the math, shall we. Assume I got would have averaged 4.5 on the par fours I took a mully on (that's obviously lower than my average score per par four, but I'm penalizing myself extra here to prove the point).

Suppose I would have gotten a 6 or 7 if I'd hit a provisional and then either played the provisional sitting 3 or hit my original shot from a crappy lie punching out from the trees or something. Say I would have gotten a 7. That's an extra 2.5 strokes per 36 holes. So maybe I'm a 14 point something handicap. Bogey plus means what, 19, 20 handicap? You're only proving my point about how uptight you guys are.

[Prairie Golfer]

I'm familiar with stroke/medal play, match play and the Stapleford system.

http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/rules.html Rule 1-3. Agreement to Waive Rules: Players must not agree to exclude the operation of any Rule or to waive any penalty incurred. Penalty for Breach of Rule 1-3: Match play — Disqualification of both sides; Stroke play — Disqualification of competitors concerned.

[mdl]

That might just be the worst analogy I've ever heard. That's why its called batting practice, because it's not done during game time, but whatever, I don't think anyone here is uptight or trying to argue. What you do on the course will not affect our lives in any way. I think all anyone is trying to say is to give honesty a try, you'll feel so much better knowing that your score was legit.

Yeah, fair enough. Not a great analogy. But my point stands.

I only quote people my best round ever with no mulligans (80). Like I said, once I leave the tee, I play my ball legit every time. If I'm playing a buddy for who has to drive next time, then again, fully by the rules. But that's about honesty. What everyone's angry about has nothing to do with that. I have felt absolutely nothing negative, ever, once, about how I'm "cheating myself". If I start breaking 80 regularly and choose to focus on my handicap as a sort of game-improvement motivation, then yeah, I would stop ever taking a mully to shore up the legitimacy of my handicap. But seriously, it just makes me sad and feel sorry for the guys who are all angry and up in arms that there could ever be anyone out there who doesn't pretend he's playing at Augusta on Sunday every single time he tees it up.

[c. lassiter]

I always play it straight by the rules.

I really don't have any desire to play with people who don't.

[billm408]

http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/rules.html

My point was that you don't

have to play by USGA or R&A; rules. IME, most people don't. Mulligans, gimmes, FBI, Breakfast Ball, etc... are all breaches of the rules and yet a common practices. I would venture that the average weekend golfer doesn't know the rules when they hit OB or what their options are when hitting into lateral vs. water hazards. Just sayin'...

[Uber$winG]

Ha. I don't know how taking an extra shot off the tee every couple rounds turns an average 85 into an average 90+. Let's do the math, shall we. Assume I got would have averaged 4.5 on the par fours I took a mully on (that's obviously lower than my average score per par four, but I'm penalizing myself extra here to prove the point).

The handicap index is not an average of the number of strokes one takes to play eighteen holes… it’s a little more involved than that. This makes me suspect that you have no idea what your actual handicap index is – never mind the Rules of Golf.

Let’s DO the math, shall we… (Score - Course Rating) x 113 / Slope Rating = Differential Get an average of the differentials used by adding them together and dividing by the number used (i.e., if five differentials are used, add them up and divide by five). Multiply the result by 0.96, drop all the digits after the tenths (do not round off) and the result is one’s handicap index which reflects one's potential scoring ability.

[mdl]

The handicap index is not an average of the number of strokes one takes to play eighteen holes… it’s a little more involved than that. This makes me suspect that you have no idea what your actual handicap index is – never mind the Rules of Golf.

No I'm very aware of the math. I looked up the exact formula just recently actually cause my handicap index is something like 6 months old, whenever golflink told me I had to start paying, and I just started coding up a little script so I could keep my own database of personal scoring stats. In the past I've only kept strokes, putts, and fairways, but if I get my code up I think I'll start adding things like up and downs from inside X yardage, from bunkers, drives right/left, what club I hit for my approach, etc.

The point is, I'm very aware that handicap isn't exactly average strokes over par. But that's not a bad approximation. And the point remains that your bitter, condescending tone, is only further evidence for the type of attitude common among serious golfers that tires me. I played baseball in college, I'm a serious athlete. I go to the range two or three times a week, though haven't had time for a full 18 more than twice a month so far this year. I have recently finally started really feeling comfortable and natural, like I used to with my baseball swing, and have been shifting attention to my short game to make the next step. What I'm saying is, I take my game seriously, and the whole set of assumptions behind your type's idea of treating golf like it's some holy order and if you're not pretending you have the a PGA official breathing down your neck during every shot of every round you play and dare to ever try a drive a second time you're sullying the faith and bringing dishonor on the sport and deserve nothing but ridicule yourself is just pathetic and tiresome.

[Uber$winG]

Syllogistically your argument doesn’t make any sense.

In one breath you say, “And the point remains that your bitter, condescending tone, is only further evidence for the type of attitude common among serious golfers that tires me.”

But then you go on to say, “What I'm saying is, I take my game seriously.”

So which is it? Are you a serious golfer or are you seriously confused? You’ve managed to construct the paradigm antinomy (N.B.: Kant).

I too am a serious athlete. I played college baseball – then I played a season of instructional ball - so we are both used to a game governed by a body of immutable rules. Let me put it to you in relatable terms. Would you consider it permissible for someone on the opposing team at bat to get four strikes instead of three? No, because that’s insane and it’s certainly not baseball.

I too am a serious prick. I have no patience for anemic arguments or plastic handicaps. It is as simple as this: either one plays golf by the rules or one does not. You are not playing by the rules - and subsequently - you are not playing golf. Stop your whining and start playing golf.

[mdl]

My point is exactly that you see me taking my game seriously as an athlete and the fact that I'm not an anal stickler for the rules when I'm just out challenging myself for fun as evidence that I'm confused.

I'm seeming quite pissed, which I shouldn't. This particular quirk of golfing culture just really gets to me. I'm not whining about the fact that if you take a mulligan you can't claim that score as a legit round. I just don't give a shit about whether the USGA would certify my round for an official handicap. I'm not making what would clearly be a quite anemic argument about how my handicap score is as legit as yours. I just don't accept your paradigm at all. I'm out there to challenge myself. You don't like how I challenge myself. That's fine. You're free to not like it that way, and never do it yourself. But as long as I'm not out there bragging about a handicap or my last couple scores when you think some of them weren't legit, what's it to you? The holier than thou, you're not even playing golf attitude is what bothers me.

The baseball analogies don't really work cause it's a team sport. If I were entering tournaments where my chance of winning were affected by my handicap, then I'd be a stickler.

[Solaar]

Mdl: I really don't understand your argument. Forget the team-sports and let's compare it to Tennis, Bowling, Track and Field sports, Martial Arts, Fishing, Weightlifting, Swimming etc or any of all the other gazillion individual sports there are. Do you play by the rules or not?

It's not about being uptight or anything, it's about following the rules of the game and most importantly being sincere (which is what golf is a lot about).

What I don't get is why you would cheat yourself? What is the point?

I can understand that you overlook certain rules when you're playing just for fun. Sometimes it might even be alright if you want to play faster.

But when it comes to hcp, I have never understood people cheating just to get a lower hcp. Really -what is the point, other than bragging rights?

[CarlSpackler]

Some friends were playing a round and put in money for skins. They all put their ball in the water on a 3 par. One of the competitors whipped out his mulligan and stuck it close and made "birdie" and proclaimed that he won the skin. The others began to argue that a mulligan was not good in the skins competition.


They all agreed that mulligans were allowable, so who is right? I guess my point is, if you play by the rules set forth by the USGA/R&A;, there are no questions or debate. I don't care what others do if they are not in competition with me or holding me up.

[jonnythan]

I play tennis recreationally. Sometimes my partner and I will disagree on whether a ball was out or not, and we'll replay the point.

By the arguments used in this thread, we are not playing tennis and we are, in fact, cheating.

That's ridiculous and I absolutely reject that argument as elitist and stupid.

[deronsizemore]

I would venture that the average weekend golfer doesn't know the rules when they hit OB or what their options are when hitting into lateral vs. water hazards. Just sayin'...

That's when I would ask why are they going to the golf course to "play golf?"

I mean, they could simple get some balls and hit them around in an open field. If you're actually going to the course to "play golf," then why not at least make an attempt to learn some of the basic rules of the game like how to play hazards, OB, etc.? If your focus is to simply go out and practice and you're dropping a few balls here and there, taking extra putts, etc., then fine. But I still hold my stance that if you actually go to the course with the intention of playing a real round of "golf" why not play as the game was meant to be played? Again, I honestly couldn't care less what anyone does on the golf course as long as it doesn't affect my play, i.e., slowing me down. I just don't understand why you would waste the money to go to the golf course to play golf and not at least try to abide by the rules. That's all I'm saying.

[DavidFehertysBike]

Golf is recreation. Not taxes. I think if some guys go out to the links for a little fun they should be able to use whatever rules they want.