Ruling: Cigar in bunker

[immts007]

This weekend my buddy hit an approach into a green-side bunker on a par 5. When we get there, we find his ball is being held up against the lip by a 3 inch cigar butt. We weren't sure what the actual rule was, but I told him I was pretty sure it was an 'unnatural obstruction' and we all agreed he could remove it. He pulled it away, and the ball rolled down more toward the center of the bunker. We let him take his shot from there.

Was that the right thing to do?

[alf174]

Good idea to keep a rules book in your bag.

I found Rule 23 - Loose Impediments which refers to Rule 18-2a Ball at Rest Moved. If you follow this rule sequence, the ball should have been replaced with a 1 stroke penalty. A 2 stroke penalty for breach.

There may be another sequence of Rules that allow the ball to be played from where it rolled but I didn't find it (yet).

[immts007]

I really thought there was a difference between something like a cigar butt and other 'natural' loose impediments. That cigar butt was not supposed to be in that bunker. There was no way to move it with out the ball moving. And it was an impossible shot with the ball where it was being held up on the lip by the butt.

[-Mini-]

I do believe you are allowed to remove the cigar - but before hand you are to mark exactly where the ball is. Then replace the ball to its exact location once you remove the cigar

[immts007]

In order to put the ball where it was after removing the cigar, and have it stay, you would have had to glue it to the bunker wall. Seriously.

[RemyM]

Obstructions
An "obstruction" is anything artificial, including the artificial surfaces and sides of roads and paths and manufactured
ice, except:

a. Objects defining out of bounds, such as walls, fences, stakes and railings;

b. Any part of an immovable artificial object that is out of bounds; and

c. Any construction declared by the Committee to be an integral part of the course.

An obstruction is a movable obstruction if it may be moved without unreasonable effort, without unduly delaying play and without causing damage. Otherwise, it is an immovable obstruction.

Note: The Committee may make a Local Rule declaring a movable obstruction to be an immovable obstruction.



24-1. Movable Obstruction
A player may take relief, without penalty, from a movable obstruction as follows:
a. If the ball does not lie in or on the obstruction, the obstruction may be removed. If the ball moves, it must be replaced, and there is no penalty, provided that the movement of the ball is directly attributable to the removal of the obstruction. Otherwise, Rule 18-2a applies.
b. If the ball lies in or on the obstruction, the ball may be lifted and the obstruction removed. The ball must through the green or in a hazard be dropped, or on the putting green be placed, as near as possible to the spot directly under the place where the ball lay in or on the obstruction, but not nearer the hole.
The ball may be cleaned when lifted under this Rule.
When a ball is in motion, an obstruction that might influence the movement of the ball, other than equipment of any player or the flagstick when attended, removed or held up, must not be moved.
(Exerting influence on ball - see Rule 1-2.)
Note: If a ball to be dropped or placed under this Rule is not immediately recoverable, another ball may be substituted.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules...and-Decisions/

[RemyM]

In order to put the ball where it was after removing the cigar, and have it stay, you would have had to glue it to the bunker wall. Seriously.

Then it would have to be replaced at the nearest point in the bunker that it would stay, no nearer the hole.

[zeg]

If it's held up by the cigar, then I'd say it's "in or on" the obstruction. In that case, you would drop, not place, per 24-1b:

If the ball lies in or on the obstruction, the ball may be lifted and the obstruction removed. The ball must through the green or in a hazard be dropped, or on the putting green be placed, as near as possible to the spot directly under the place where the ball lay in or on the obstruction, but not nearer the hole.

[Three Putt]

Then it would have to be replaced at the nearest point in the bunker that it would stay, no nearer the hole.

I agree with him ^^^^^. You never drop in a hazard (at least i'm 99% sure on this)

[Uber$winG]

We play barkies, sandies, and stogies. If the player’s ball touches a cigar but anywhere on the course the player has to smoke it while taking his next shot.

[RemyM]

You never drop in a hazard (at least i'm 99% sure on this)

Sure you do:

b. If the ball lies in or on the obstruction, the ball may be lifted and the obstruction removed. The ball must through the green or in a hazard be dropped... So if the ball was on a piece of paper or in a cup you would drop it in the bunker.

[alf174]

I do not believe a carelessly deposited cigar is an obstruction; its similar to a small branch or wood chip IMHO.

[Fourputt]

This weekend my buddy hit an approach into a green-side bunker on a par 5. When we get there, we find his ball is being held up against the lip by a 3 inch cigar butt. We weren't sure what the actual rule was, but I told him I was pretty sure it was an 'unnatural obstruction' and we all agreed he could remove it. He pulled it away, and the ball rolled down more toward the center of the bunker. We let him take his shot from there.

A cigar is an obstruction, therefore it can be removed without penalty. If the ball moves when the obstruction is removed, the ball must be replaced. If it won't remain on that spot, then it must be placed in the nearest spot in the bunker not closer to the hole where it will remain at rest.

As he played from a wrong place, he incurred a 2 stroke penalty.

I do not believe a carelessly deposited cigar is an obstruction; its similar to a small branch or wood chip IMHO.

A cigar is a manufactured object and yes, it

is an obstruction. However, it is nothing like a branch or a wood chip, which are natural objects. Natural objects are NOT obstructions. They are loose impediments and cannot be moved when both the impediment and the player's ball lie in a hazard.

[Ignorant]

A cigar is a manufactured object and yes, it

Correct, cigar really is an obstruction regardless if it has been smoked and discarded or brand new. However, chips may be either loose impediments or obstructions depending on the way of manufacture. Chips whittled by an idle boy scout are loose impediments as they have not been made for any spesific purpose.

On many courses manufactured wood chips are used to protect newly planted trees or as path coatings. By definition these chips are obstructions. Although on some courses they have been declared as integral parts of the course or loose impediments by a Local Rule.

[tjy355]

Correct, cigar really is an obstruction regardless if it has been smoked and discarded or brand new. However, chips may be either loose impediments or obstructions depending on the way of manufacture. Chips whittled by an idle boy scout are loose impediments as they have not been made for any spesific purpose.

What about potato chips?

[alf174]

We play barkies, sandies, and stogies. If the player’s ball touches a cigar but anywhere on the course the player has to smoke it while taking his next shot.

This is the

best answer. :)

[Ignorant]

What about potato chips?

Depends on the flavour

[Scrape-o-TheClown]

This is a very good rules question. My only question to everyone who has answered is, a bunker is a hazard just like a creek or any water hazard for that matter. If memory serves me correctly you cannot remove anything from a hazard (sticks, leaves) I also know that you used to not be able to remove rocks from a bunker. So is it in the rules that you can legally remove an obstruction from a hazard in this case being the bunker?