hitting down on the ball vs. scooping

[Dr. Slice]

what makes hitting down on the ball so much better than scooping it. i know that is how you create backspin and stuff but is it worth really learning to hit down on the ball when ive been scooping it my whole life and doing good doing that?

[DaveLeeNC]

  Dr. Slice said:

what makes hitting down on the ball so much better than scooping it. i know that is how you create backspin and stuff but is it worth really learning to hit down on the ball when ive been scooping it my whole life and doing good doing that?

I'm not sure exactly what "scooping" is in your swing. But what is critical is to create (with shots not hit off a tee) ...

1) an angle of attack that is level or downward 2) a shaft angle at impact that is verticle or (better) forward leaning Anything else (for shots not hit off a tee) leaves you absolutely no margin for error. Downward is far less important than "not upward". dave

[wedge player]

  Dr. Slice said:

what makes hitting down on the ball so much better than scooping it. i know that is how you create backspin and stuff but is it worth really learning to hit down on the ball when ive been scooping it my whole life and doing good doing that?

i cant remember his name but a champions player does that i think jim thorpe.i saw him talking about it on tv one night

[Dr. Slice]

by scooping the ball i mean i dont really take a divot when i hit my irons. i always hear people say that you should be hitting the ball first before you hit the ground, im pretty sure i dont do that

[DaveLeeNC]

  Dr. Slice said:

by scooping the ball i mean i dont really take a divot when i hit my irons. i always hear people say that you should be hitting the ball first before you hit the ground, im pretty sure i dont do that

if the bottom of your swing is at or ahead of the ball and your shaft is verticle (or better) forward at impact, it isn't a big deal (IMHO).

dave ps. Despite what you might think it is possible to hit down on the ball with a shaft that 'leans backward' at impact. That is not a good solution - take it from experience

[iacas]

  Dr. Slice said:

what makes hitting down on the ball so much better than scooping it. i know that is how you create backspin and stuff but is it worth really learning to hit down on the ball when ive been scooping it my whole life and doing good doing that?

The shaft will lean further forward the lower your handicap. I'm not trying to be rude about it, but your handicap's listed as 12. You have plenty of room to improve.

Hitting down on the ball helps to ensure better contact, better distance, better spin, more control, and so on. Tom Watson was a "picker" of the golf ball, but he wasn't a "scooper" at all.

[HSip]

  Dr. Slice said:

by scooping the ball i mean i dont really take a divot when i hit my irons. i always hear people say that you should be hitting the ball first before you hit the ground, im pretty sure i dont do that

  iacas said:

The shaft will lean further forward the lower your handicap. I'm not trying to be rude about it, but your handicap's listed as 12. You have plenty of room to improve.

I think we might have a difference in perception. Dr Slice says "i dont really take a divot when i hit my irons" (I assume if you're a 12 HCP you're not topping the crap out of it?!?) and iacas points out "Tom Watson was a "picker" of the golf ball" so it looks like Dr Slice is a "picker" of the ball also. I know the course I play most has fairways that will get really hard so I tend to pick the ball a bit and when I get to play a course with a little softer fairways I will take a small divot w/ irons.

[iacas]

  HSip said:

so it looks like Dr Slice is a "picker" of the ball also.

There's a difference, though, between "picking" the ball and "scooping" the ball. If he's truly doing the latter - and without video we can't really say - then he has a lot of room to improve.

[Dr. Slice]

what are some ways that can help me hit down on the ball?

i guess im not really even sure what that means exactly i know its where you hit the ball before you take your divot but thats pretty much all i know.

[timtim]

I disagree with the "point" of hitting down on the ball being "to create more backspin", as discussed in the below video. I would recommend it to improve consistent ball direction and distance. I fully believe that if you went to any good golf coach, and told them your goal this year was hitting more greens in regulation from the fairway, and you took several lessons from them, and you got better, even if those teachers never used the phrase "hitting down on the ball", I fully believe that what they would teach you would have you "hitting down on the ball" after that period of lessons.

Please note in the below video that the hips of this young man do not move away from the target on his back swing. Please note that when he starts his back swing his hips are turning and pulling the club along. Please note that when he hits the ball his left shoulder is the center of the radius of the clubhead movement, and that his left shoulder is in front of the ball at the moment of contact, therefore the radius of the clubhead movement continues the clubhead down to the bottom of the swing arc several inches in front of the ball. So those are the things you need to do to hit "down" on the ball.

[timtim]

Another video, I am sorry that this is basically a sales video, but it has some excellent high speed video:

[timtim]

And then some more tips:

[timtim]

And Tom Watson picking the ball.

[timtim]

Now. Young Tom Watson. Hitting down on the ball.

[timtim]

Ben Hogan. Short iron. Down on the ball.

[timtim]

Ben Hogan. 4 wood. Down on the ball.

[timtim]

Jack Nicklaus. 2 Iron. ON A TEE! Still hitting down on the ball enough to hit the ground after hitting a teed up ball. Watch the slo mo later in the video to see the tee flip up in the air and the grass get ripped up.

[timtim]

Woody Austin hitting down on the ball instead of down on his head.