my friend the cheater

[Newbie Collection Agency]

yesterday i was playing 18 holes with my friend (JJ). JJ always lies about his score but he was ridiculous today. I kept track of every shot of his as well as he did. To find that in the end he said he shot an 85. HE really shot 110. BUt the worst thing is he lied about his score at the end just to say he beat me. I shot an 86 and when he saw that he changed his scores to an 85. How can someone lie like this????

[BeRight]

That sucks big time.

My regular partner is similar..

We've been playing together for three years now since i took up the game. He had already been playing for about 15 years at this point and playing off about 15 .. I've gradually brought my handicap down over this time whilst his stayed at 15. He has always taken the odd shot off his score on bad holes but recently my handicap has gone down to 12(through lessons and hard work) and his has miraculously gone down to 8(through deceipt)

The other day i caught him cheating on three separate occasions.

1 count of : Miraculously finding a ball that had gone out of bounds 'In bounds'
1 count of : Improving his lie by moving the ball with his club head at address
1 count of: 'Finding' his ball in the rough and playing the shot then walking forward and finding his actual ball and putting it on his trolley. (The only ball on his trolley and easily identified by the make and his initials)

And that's just the 3 times I saw him do it.

If he's that desparate to win perhaps he should find a new partner who's a beginner.

Also, I've only actuallly beaten him once previously because all the other times i've opened a can of whoopass.. he's picked up on holes to void his card.

He is also reluctant to play in competitions.. presumably because he knows if he gets caught in a comp the person he's playing with will say something, where as I won't because it's not worth falling out over.

In short.. you are not alone

[cdriver]

One of my old golfing buddies was a customer of mine and he would always mis-count his penalty strokes. I called him on it once when he went out of bounds. Instead of hitting a provisional, he just dropped beside where his ball crossed the OB stakes. When he holed out, I asked what he took and he was two strokes below actual, not even counting the penalty for playing from the wrong place. I laughed at him and questioned it and he told me, "It is penalty enough to lose a good ball, so I am not taking any more penalty strokes."

[BeRight]

Not on is it.. Like i said, short of actually falling with the person what can you do..

[cdriver]

Not much... I used to have a group that I would join that played for quarter skins, but I had to drop out. One of the guys was a real cheater and I just couldn't stomach paying him money he cheated to win. Too bad to because they were a fun group for the most part.

[rembrandt]

If he is your friend, DON'T DO A THING! He is only hurting himself and no one else. I've played with guys like that and I just overlook it and go on. If you challange him about it and embarrass him you might lose a buddy you really don't want to lose. It's not worth it, now if it's in a tournament of some kind or a scramble, thats a whole new ball game.

[rembrandt]

That reminds me! Remember the movie "Open Range" with Costner and Duvall? The kid was cheating at poker and Costner quit and walked away. He couldn't understand why but he learned a great lesson about life. Maybe your golf buddy could learn from that example. Ask him if he saw that movie and tell him to watch it again.

[slimeberry]

I have a buddy just like this. He always managed to beat me by a stroke, even though I knew I had beaten him by several. Same thing. Hit one OB, take a drop, and not give himself even one stroke. It got to the point that I hated playing w/ him. Finally, to salvage our friendship, I started really paying attention to his score. After a hole I might say..."Put me down for a par. What'd you take? A six?" He might say "No, put me down for a par too." Thats where I would start counting his strokes out loud to him, as if I was trying to figure it out. "One off the tee. Two in the woods. Drop for three. On in four. Two put. That's six, right?" I know I sounded like a smart ass, but he took the hint pretty quickly.

A customer is an entirley different animal. I want them to feel good out there. The last thing I would do is call a customer out on the track. Bad idea. I have one customer that is so full of shit that I can't stand to talk to him for more than 5 minutes. He talkes about himself non stop on the golf couurse and off (even during putting and teeing off). I kid you not. I shoot 10 stroke higher when I play w/ him. I am a healthy 31 year old man, but my blood pressure starts to go crazy and I physically get ill around him. I CAN NOT PLAY W/ HIM ANYMORE!!! I HATE HIM!!! Other than him... the customer is always right.

[Konrad]

You guys can deal with it, or put down your foot nicely.

Call him aloud first. Get on the teebox, and look at him and say "Let's play it by the books today." And if he says yes, then make sure he does. If he says no, then it's not much fun playing with him and stop playing golf with the dude.

It's really simple. It's just not easy.

[flap]

I have a friend who has the best foot wedge I have ever seen.Unless you are playing a match GET OVER IT!!!It dont matter what he does play your own game.If you want to piss him off dont keep a scorecard yourself and just tell him what you did on the last hole.If he asks you why no card tell him the score dont matter what matters is the cammaraderie thet you two had for the day.

[dayll]

My foursome never plays for money. We have for years gotten by just by our love of the game and friendship but - and this is hard to admit - I have on more than a couple of occasions cheated just to improve my score. We make a big deal about shooting in the 70's and a lie improved here and there can make the difference between a 79 and an 80. No one ever questions anyone and if one guy shoots 76 and another 77 we are so polite to one another it will not be brought up that we all saw the guy that shot 76 fluff-up a lie on eightteen. Instead we pat him on the back and tell him, "nice game." probably we are pretty pathetic - but it somehow seems to work for the four of us. (e.g. yesterday, on a reachable par 5 I pulled my long iron second shot way left of the green and it ran over a hill and when I came up to the ball I saw it was sitting on a severe side hill lie. The hill hid me from the other guys and I bumped the ball down into the flat and proceed to make a par after blowing a "birdie" putt. Funny part was the guys "gave" me the three foot come-backer for par. Of course I took it and ended with a 81. I'm pathetic and admit it. -d

[rembrandt]

I have a friend who has the best foot wedge I have ever seen.Unless you are playing a match GET OVER IT!!!It dont matter what he does play your own game.If you want to piss him off dont keep a scorecard yourself and just tell him what you did on the last hole.If he asks you why no card tell him the score dont matter what matters is the cammaraderie thet you two had for the day.

Very good!

[sscameron]

eh, you'll run into guys/friends like that, the question is, does it matter? if ya'll are playing for bragging rights, then no, if there is BIG money on the line, then call him on it. Otherwise, as someone mentioned, he's only hurting himself. Also, I would think he is just trying to get into your head...which, I believe he has, since you're keeping track of his strokes. If I had a person do that, then I wouldnt worry about keeping track of mine... :)

Play the course, not the person, unless youre in match play...

[cdriver]

I have played with lots of guys who "noodle" the ball into a better lie and who move the ball from behind trees. They are not as serious about the game as I am and that is fine. I play the ball as it lies because it is in the rules and also because I want to know that my handicap is really my handicap. I want to know I am improving and if you don't play the ball down, how do you ever know if you are any good? If we are playing a friendly round together, you can do as you please and I will just keep playing by the rules. I figure that, really, most golfers that move the ball around aren't good enough to beat me even if I am playing it down.

[elivate]

One of my old golfing buddies was a customer of mine and he would always mis-count his penalty strokes. I called him on it once when he went out of bounds. Instead of hitting a provisional, he just dropped beside where his ball crossed the OB stakes. When he holed out, I asked what he took and he was two strokes below actual, not even counting the penalty for playing from the wrong place. I laughed at him and questioned it and he told me, "It is penalty enough to lose a good ball, so I am not taking any more penalty strokes."

I have always questioned how many penalty strokes an average weekend golfer should take. If I hit a ball into the woods and I decide to go look instead of hitting provisional, and I don't find the ball, I just drop one around the spot and add a one stroke penalty. I never take a "mulligan" and for the most part we always putt out, sometimes we will give each other a putt, usually after we nonchalantly try to tap it in and miss... I think this is ok for a casual weekend round, and if it was a club championship or something then the proper rules would be followed.

Having said that, what exactly is the proper thing to do when you hit a ball into a position where you think you may find it, then once you look for a minute or two, you realize it is lost? And, more on topic, I used to play with a guy who would always seem to avoid the big blow up hole on his scorecard, even when I know for a fact he had hit it 8 or 9 times...

[cdriver]

I have always questioned how many penalty strokes an average weekend golfer should take. If I hit a ball into the woods and I decide to go look instead of hitting provisional, and I don't find the ball, I just drop one around the spot and add a one stroke penalty. I never take a "mulligan" and for the most part we always putt out, sometimes we will give each other a putt, usually after we nonchalantly try to tap it in and miss... I think this is ok for a casual weekend round, and if it was a club championship or something then the proper rules would be followed.

As to what do you do when you hit the ball into a place where it might not be playable?? We normally declare a provisional ball and play the provisional until we are up to where the original ball went astray. If we find it is playable, we play it. If not, then the provisional ball becomes the ball in play. The score reflects the appropriate penalty strokes if the ball was OB.

[elivate]

I see, I guess we are just used to having to move along pretty quickly on the golf course, I usually don't hit a provisional unless I really drive it deep into the woods and know that it is gone for sure...

So, by the rules, how many penalty strokes do you add in each situation?

1. hit provisional and do not find original ball
2. no provisional ball and drop around where the ball was lost
3. no provisional but find original ball and it is unplayable, then take a drop

Thanks!

[iacas]

1. hit provisional and do not find original ball

Lost ball = stroke and distance. It's the same penalty as OB, basically.

2. no provisional ball and drop around where the ball was lost

You've not played golf at that point. You've made up your own game. If you're doing this in the interest of keeping things moving, I'd basically add two strokes to your score here - one for the stroke penalty and another for the "distance".

3. no provisional but find original ball and it is unplayable, then take a drop

One stroke for the unplayable lie. Then you can drop within two clublengths, hit again from where you hit your previous shot, or go back on the line between the ball and the hole as far as you want.