Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
uppi

separating upper body from lower body (on the downswing)

21 posts in this topic

I have been having huge problems with this. My posture is good, my grip is good, my takeaway is good, I get into all the right positions at the top of the back swing. I have a full shoulder turn, with very minimal turning of the hips to the top. However, I struggle keeping my upper body quiet on the downswing. When i try to slide then turn my hips, my shoulders always go with, and its hurting my consistency. It started out as really bad pulls, then when i tried to correct that I started pushing the ball and shanking my wedges, now im shanking just about every club in my bag. My latest read is Hank Haney's Essentials, and in his section on the downswing, he talks about dropping your arms and feeling like your shoulders stay in place and back stay facing the target. When I practice moving my arms through while forcing my shoulders to stay in place, it seems to work. I am not reallly thinking about my hips turning, but when I practice this way it seems the hips are almost taking care of themselves. For you experienced players out there, Is this how the downswing should feel? Also if Anyone has good advice on "separating the upper from lower body" I would greatly appreciate it. Hoping to get some good discussion going.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Want to get rid of this advertisement? Sign up (or log in) today! It's free!

I have been having huge problems with this. My posture is good, my grip is good, my takeaway is good, I get into all the right positions at the top of the back swing. I have a full shoulder turn, with very minimal turning of the hips to the top. However, I struggle keeping my upper body quiet on the downswing. When i try to slide then turn my hips, my shoulders always go with, and its hurting my consistency. It started out as really bad pulls, then when i tried to correct that I started pushing the ball and shanking my wedges, now im shanking just about every club in my bag. My latest read is Hank Haney's Essentials, and in his section on the downswing, he talks about dropping your arms and feeling like your shoulders stay in place and back stay facing the target. When I practice moving my arms through while forcing my shoulders to stay in place, it seems to work. I am not reallly thinking about my hips turning, but when I practice this way it seems the hips are almost taking care of themselves. For you experienced players out there, Is this how the downswing should feel? Also if Anyone has good advice on "separating the upper from lower body" I would greatly appreciate it. Hoping to get some good discussion going.

Try to hold your left shoulder from turning for a split second, while you start your hip turn.

Too much though and you will lose your ball to the right. What you are trying to achieve takes a lot of practice.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

Talking about that ?


I'm affraid (for myself) that's not working all the time for me yet. But when it is ... feeling&shot;'s are superb !

My problem is ... when I don't think I can achieve it (most of the times .. but not that good all the times) But When I want to practice it's like lotery


Cheers,
M
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

Nice swing.

IMO you have a little too much leg movement, not a lot. Take a look at ben hogans legs on youtube... his right leg barely moves lateraly and in fact, he almost straightens his right knee, you do this a little... you should do it more. I dont think you're handicap is staying at 24 for much longer with a swing like that. Remember that ball striking is also only 30% of the game. 60% is sub 100 yards. 10% is between your ears.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

Thanks for kind words ! HCP is not my concern (yet) because I'm building swing I can play way bellow my HCP and sometimes spot on

to contribute to topic :

As you can see .. 1. video is to small or NO separation and in 2 video is decent separation



Explanation :
- I want to have active legs
- my goal is separation between arms and body
- i'm working on "One plane" swing

Separation between arms and body should (for me) be achieved because I tend to start (downswing) with a small bump with left hip and then rotation (upper body and arms together) But I should turn my upper body faster and arms slower to get with a body ahead of arms.

Cheers,
M
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I, too, would like to hear what more people have to say about this. After a few lessons, I am in much better positions throughout my back swing. Now, to tackle the down swing. My instructor is just saying things like "let the arms fall" and "bring them down" . Everything he's helped me with I could feel, but, this I cannot seem to get the feeling. (Or I just don't know what the proper feeling is so I can repeat it.)
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I, too, would like to hear what more people have to say about this. After a few lessons, I am in much better positions throughout my back swing. Now, to tackle the down swing. My instructor is just saying things like "let the arms fall" and "bring them down" . Everything he's helped me with I could feel, but, this I cannot seem to get the feeling. (Or I just don't know what the proper feeling is so I can repeat it.)

Wrap a towel around your driver's clubhead, preferably wet. Now swing the club naturally. That feeling is what you want to have.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You cast your club on your downswing. Huge loss of distance.

The separation you seek happens when you keep you legs quiet, while making a full shoulder turn on the backswing. It also occurs when you uncoil, start your downswing with you lower body, and clear your hips early.

Don't worry about separation until you fix your casting problem.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You cast your club on your downswing. Huge loss of distance.

Hi,

I presume you talking to me Yes I know my "lag" issues (or casting). The problem for me is multidimensional .. at first i don't beleive in lag "per se" but on other hand ... my distance vary very much (for same club) because i don't get in desirable position with my right elbow. I can do "lag" thing .. but not in "one plane" style. So for now i'm learnig how to connect everything together (Lag is byproduct for correct body and arms motions) and focusing on separation. Maybe I'm on wrong track here/now but thanks for pointing out obvious fact (at least for my iron swing video) ...during practice one thing .. other areas can suffer and it' good to know/be reminded what are the basics principles (for me your second description). Cheers, M
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the only problem I see is what another poster stated already....casting. I would try to work on you right elbow getting into your right hip on the downswing and keep everything else the same....good looking swing, but I bet you suffer in distance from time to time.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yikes, you'll never be consistent with that major cast and flip, with a very right arm/hand dominated release that you have there. I wouldn't worry abou the leg action, it looks fine to me.

I would start with some chip 7 irons to see what impact feels like with your hands ahead of the club face. Address the ball normally, then forward press your hands to the middle of your lead thigh. Take the club back with out any arm or wrist break down to about waist high and bring it back through the ball without any hand movement. After awhile you can start adding a little wrist hing on the back swing and increasing your swing arc.

w
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have a classic "swing the door" type downswing. When a door closes, the top, middle, and bottom of the door all move at the same time. The golf swing must uncoil from the ground up.

Tak the club half way back, and hit short shots using only your body turn to power the ball, as if dragging the arms through last. You cannot do this if you get the club inside too quickly, keep the clubhead outside the hands on the way to "half way." Try to reach impact with both hip cheeks visible from directly behind you, looking down the line toward your target. Use half swings at first because you will have no power unless you turn your lower body through the shot.

The weight shift left is complicated. Don't think slide first then turn, but don't hang back on the right leg either. The shift starts, then think turn the left hip behind you, just like any throwing motion.

I believe that in cases like yours, the best approach is to simply focus on starting the swing with the hips turning -- then just make sure your weight is all on the left leg at the finish. Relax the upper body, don't worry about the "hit", the arms will come down and through naturally. Personally, I don't feel any upper body effort. The arms feel like a whip and simply respond to the turning body -- but remember you cannot do this if get inside too quickly.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

uppi,

I had a golf lesson yesterday on this problem.

Turned out I was overswinging on the backswing, letting the right hand take over and looping the club on the downswing. Result: frequent ugly pulls or slices.

Solution: Stop backswing when...
- I have left shoulder under my chin
- my hands are at ear-level

Then, drop hands with left lead, pick up lag, and get delayed release into the hitting area.

The pro gave me some swing drills to do, and also e-mailed a V1video of the lesson to my home computer.

You mentioned you make a full shoulder turn.... make sure you're not overdoing it. Good luck!
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

uppi,

There is no such thing as turning your shoulders too much... this is a common misconception.

Take a look at tigers driver swing and watch how far his shoulders go.... it is almost inhumanely possible to go further. Yet the club never goes past parallel.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To go back to the OP's point before the thread was highjacked by MP:

One exercise you can do is use a pilates ball and lie on it on your back with only your shoulder blades on the ball and your feet flat on the floor - similar to a bench press position with the ball as the bench.

Use a weight (plate, dumbell, etc.) and extend your arms straight in the air (as in full extension when bench press). Rep by going to the right and left with your arms fully extended; this promotes seperation of your top and bottom while also increasing core strength
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me, I have turned to working on the swing from the bottom up. I can have a good backswing but it goes for nought if I cannot get my weight settled on the front foot before the down swing. I have tried the philosophy of developing a good backswing and as a result the lower body will react and shift the weight unconsciously. I just don't think it will work for me. Right now, I think I can make a good backswing without thinking too much about it. So, I make the backswing, hold and shift the weight to the left foot, I might slightly drop the hands, and then swing. I was hanging back with the weight way too much before. It is much easier to swing from the inside when you can rotate around the front leg. Hanging on the back leg almost gaurantees an over the top move.

I found that at first my swing was a little herky-jerky but as I got a rythym going it smooths out. I am making much better contact and find myself hitting more greens.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by ddalet

Lag is the result of a proper shoulder turn and hip release.

This is true, but also keeping arms loose and wrists loose.

Don't try to hold lag or work on getting lag, the separation is the key.

What happens is that after the full shoulder turn the torque or tension between the shoulders and the hips is stretched by starting the hips forward and turning them but the shoulders delay behind.

You really need to get used to the sensation of separation between shoulders and hips. It feels like you are tightening a rubber band and then releasing it.

Also you can lag the arms and wrists behind further, this and the maximised x factor seems to be where the power is at.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2016 TST Partners

    GAME Golf
    PING Golf
    Lowest Score Wins
  • Posts

    • I know this is "under review" so to speak, but I would echo this. I went back Jeremie's swing thread; his receptivity to direction and subsequent swing changes has demonstrated his dedication, and his obedience has born out marked improvement. Nice job, Jeremie!
    • Errrr.... Typo: Els and not Else... Sorry about that :)
      Is there a way to edit a topic started post?
    • I readily admit that I'm a baby when it comes to humidity. Thankfully I live in a place where I don't usually have to worry about it.
    • Lessons, depending on your arrangement with your home course, can be a much better way to make money than if you just work in the shop.  In the shop I would imagine you're not making much more than $15 an hour, even as a professional, assuming that you aren't salaried to run the golf operation for a city. Even if you charged a relatively cheap rate of $50 an hour for lessons, and the course took half of your inexpensive fee, you would be making $10 more an hour than you would otherwise and it might be more enjoyable that pro shop work for you. Playing lessons could be even more lucrative depending on your rates, and you can even play some golf yourself (either playing with the player or demonstrating a shot, for example).  Youth programs can be highly profitable if that's something you're interested in. A local course with two PGA professionals has a weekly group lesson for junior golfers at $20 per person. On the days that this program is running they easily have 30-40 kids ($600-800) out there working on chipping and putting (and then the kids go out to walk nine holes afterwords). Depending on how your course operates and how busy it is this is something you could look into organizing. Put up flyers both on the course and in public areas where you are allowed to post things to get the word out. If you are somewhat tech and business inclined it might be a good idea to look into starting up a small business of your own selling golf apparel and equipment. Take advantage of your PGA membership and start up accounts with the major brands such as Titleist, PING, Taylormade, Scotty Cameron (they kind of do their stuff separate from Titleist) and put up a storefront on your own website. Squarespace is one web-hosting company I know of that does an excellent job of making it easy for you to put together what you want. Nearly everything in most golf shops is marked up at keystone pricing or higher, so there is definitely profit to be made if you can get some web traffic (and it never hurts to have it up for people to stumble upon).  Look up public courses in your area and figure out who the person in charge of contracting out the golf courses is. The title in my city is the "Golf Operations Manager", but this varies from city to city. Get to know this person and learn when the management contracts for various courses expire so you can put your bid in to run one of the courses on behalf of the city. This is where you'd likely end up making the most money, but it would be the most administrative of the options. You would likely be responsible for hiring, firing, reports, and other day to day tasks but the big advantage is that the city, in most cases, will allow you to use the pro shop to sell your own merchandise. This becomes huge since then the profits (or at least a large portion of them) from every pro shop sale goes into your pocket, though it does come with the added work of managing inventory and negotiating terms with the city. This is, though, by far the most lucrative option that would be somewhat easily (with enough background work and a good proposal/interview) attainable. One other thing, along the lines of the previous point, that you could do is see if there are any professionals that are contracted to run two golf courses through the city. My city currently works this way, but the professional has to subcontract the second course to another PGA professional in order to manage everything smoothly. As a result of this the professional at the course I work for (the subcontracted professional) is now a near shoe-in to win the bid to manage the golf course he's been running when the city contract becomes available this January, just because he has been running the show there for the last four years. Continuing to excel at your current position at the golf course while networking and getting to know your customers (a large factor for the aforementioned pro is that he has developed close ties with the clientele and has increased revenue as a result) is something that will be viewed favorably if you later put in a bid to manage the course.
    • It took me two years to get from a 24 handicap (my starting point) to about a 6-8 handicap when I started playing seriously. It then took me another two years to get from about a 7 to a 2. In the last year I had a big jump that got me from the 2 handicap to my current +1.5, which I would consider to be the largest leap I've ever made (which is somewhat funny, considering I've probably practiced the least in the last year as compared to previous years). It just kind of clicked for me that it's okay to expect to make birdies, whereas before I felt like I never could make any.
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Images

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. JLeeWildcat9
      JLeeWildcat9
      (30 years old)
    2. Ping Man
      Ping Man
      (52 years old)
  • Blog Entries