Wie's Folly

[ragontona]

Looks like the rules have bitten Michelle Wie in the rear end yet again:

Michelle Wie was penalized two strokes at the Women's British Open on Friday for making contact with a piece of moss behind her ball. The 16-year-old Wie made contact while hitting out of a greenside bunker at the 14th hole. The sand clearly moved, and the incident was picked up by TV cameras and tournament officials.

Wie didn't know about the penalty until she reached the recorders' office after her round at Royal Lytham. What she thought was an even-par round of 72 was switched to a 74, leaving her at 4-over for two rounds.

"There was a piece of moss right behind my ball," Wie said. "I knew I hit it but I didn't think it would result in a penalty of two strokes. I thought if you hit dirt it would be OK, but I guess I knew the rule wrong."

[iacas]

"There was a piece of moss right behind my ball," Wie said. "I knew I hit it but I didn't think it would result in a penalty of two strokes. I thought if you hit dirt it would be OK, but I guess I knew the rule wrong."

Good Golly!

So basically, what, she struck a loose impediment (a piece of moss) in a bunker? That seems to be what the report is indicating.

[ragontona]

Good Golly!

That's how it reads to me.

Actually, I found this for clarification: A statement by the Ladies Golf Union said Wie had broken rule 13-4 of the Rules of Golf, which prohibits touching the ground in a bunker prior to making a stroke. "A stroke is the forward movement of the club, a backswing is not part of the stroke, hence a 2-stroke penalty was incurred," the statement said. So it looks like Wie inadvertently grounded the club. During the backswing, she must've hit the moss, which made the sand move...

[GoingfortheGreen]

I know this is a dumb comment, but I couldn't resist as I leave for the weekend

Maybe she should spend less time playing PGA events, and spend more time reading the Rules of Golf as defined by the USGA/R&A.;

[ragontona]

I know this is a dumb comment, but I couldn't resist as I leave for the weekend

Oh, Good Lord.

[cold]

ahaha

[allin]

Jist saw a replay of this on TGC. It obviously was an accident and gave her no advantage. Given the loose impediment rule she had to play it. She wasn't testing her lie, or grounding the club. The only problem I have with it is her statement that she is only 16 as if that excuses her. If you want to compete with the grown ups you should expect to be held to the same standards. accidental, it happens, dumb rule, probably. But she wasn't being picked on.

[Konrad]

I know this is a dumb comment, but I couldn't resist as I leave for the weekend

Yeah, and everyone on this board should quit their day job, lock themselves into a dark pit, and burn themselves with lit cigarettes until they learn the rules of golf. Give me a break...

[ragontona]

Jist saw a replay of this on TGC. It obviously was an accident and gave her no advantage. Given the loose impediment rule she had to play it. She wasn't testing her lie, or grounding the club. The only problem I have with it is her statement that she is only 16 as if that excuses her. If you want to compete with the grown ups you should expect to be held to the same standards. accidental, it happens, dumb rule, probably. But she wasn't being picked on.

I don't think she was using it as an excuse, so much, just an acknowledgement that she's young and still learning.

I hadn't read the quote, so I found it on a Scottish news site: Impressively, there was no teenage tantrums from Wie, just an admittance to an ignorance of the rules. "I knew I hit the moss but I thought if you swung through that it was okay," she said after signing her card. "But I guess I knew the rule wrong. That's what happens when you're 16, but it is all a good learning experience." I think she's handling the incident quite well. I know it's speculation, but can you imagine what would've happened if Morgan Pressell had the same thing happen?

[GoingfortheGreen]

In all seriousness, if we are going to compare prodigies, let's look at Tiger v/s Michelle. I remember hearing numerous comments from broadcasters about Tiger's knowledge and grasp of the rules - whether it deals with movable obstructions, getting relief, etc. Forget for a second that he has immense talent, Tiger knows the rules in and out (at least that's what I've heard), and is able to use them to his advantage - when the opportunity arises.

Thoughts?

[cdriver]

Well, perhaps I don't know the rules as well as I should either. I thought they changed the rules where you could remove loose impediments in bunkers just like you can through the green? If the moss was a loose impediment, why couldn't she just remove it? Also, I, like Michelle, thought that grounding your club in a hazard did not include your backswing. Once you have started the club back, you are in the process of swinging, aren't you?

The other part of this is that they are using cameras to call penalties so that every person with a telephone and a TV is a rules official. I don't like this regardless of who it is called on. I don't like the instant replay deal in golf..

[iacas]

Jist saw a replay of this on TGC. It obviously was an accident and gave her no advantage. Given the loose impediment rule she had to play it. She wasn't testing her lie, or grounding the club. The only problem I have with it is her statement that she is only 16 as if that excuses her. If you want to compete with the grown ups you should expect to be held to the same standards. accidental, it happens, dumb rule, probably. But she wasn't being picked on.

A commenter somewhere else said this:

I was watching this live on the BBC , and both Beverly Lewis and Karen Stupples argued with Peter Alliss that this was a penalty. Beverly Lewis even had her spectacles on and a rule book in her hand, and was still willing to bet that this was no penalty. In other words, Michelle isn't the only person ignorant of the rules. Ben Crane couldn't defend his title at the U.S. Bank because he signed an incorrect scorecard... rules infractions happen all the time. Very few pros - surprisingly - know the rules. Look at how often they have to call an official over just to drop away from a cart path or something. It's disappointing. But I realize why they do it - they don't want to be penalized for something dumb. I'd bet very few - if any - PGA/LPGA Tour players could get more than six of ten questions randomly selected from "Decisions" correct.

[iacas]

Well, perhaps I don't know the rules as well as I should either. I thought they changed the rules where you could remove loose impediments in bunkers just like you can through the green? If the moss was a loose impediment, why couldn't she just remove it? Also, I, like Michelle, thought that grounding your club in a hazard did not include your backswing. Once you have started the club back, you are in the process of swinging, aren't you?

A swing is defined as a forward motion intended to strike the golf ball (or something close to that).

I can imagine many situations when defining the backswing as part of your stroke would be advantageous. But I'm willing to stipulate that it's not a rule most people know (the definition of a swing or stroke). One of the key things is "intent" too. I've stopped my downswing or shouted "no swing" and intentionally missed the ball by a good margin (rather than risk injury by braking hard) if I get distracted mid-swing.

[allin]

Really, I thought you had to stop your swing, that if you swung through it was a stroke. I do understand she is 16, but competition is different, one of my friends is relatively inexperienced playing poker, and was very upset when I was the one who knocked her out of her first paid entry tournement. I check raised with a nuts hand to put her all in. The point is that I suckered her. You can be friendly but winning within the rules is the goal period.

[LarryK]

A show of hands please from all those who thinks she's still good to finish in the top five. Hmmm. Looks like the crowd has thinned out a bit.

Hate to say I told you so but,........well.........nawww, not really. I certainly don't wish Michelle ill. I look forward to seeing her win, but I could just smell this one coming a mile away.

[ragontona]

A show of hands please from all those who thinks she's still good to finish in the top five. Hmmm. Looks like the crowd has thinned out a bit.

A pair of opening 74's will more than likely keep her out of the Top 5. Acknowledged.

But "I told you so" implies what we were making some trendy pick with no basis in trends and stats. In the six ladies' tournaments she's played this year, she's finished no worse than fifth. That's six tournaments, with six top fives. Only one of those tournaments (Fields Open) was what could be considered as a "minor" tournament. Everything else was a big stage. Point is, I didn't think she would crack under the pressure, so I had no reason to believe she wouldn't finish back in the top five.

[iacas]

A pair of opening 74's will more than likely keep her out of the Top 5. Acknowledged.

Ditto that. And she'd have been T25 and only eight back going into the third round if she hadn't gotten the dumb penalty.

[rembrandt]

You can not ground your club or improve your lie by touching anything in the back swing. That is what she did and was penalized for it. Doesn't matter on the down swing but she brushed the moss on the back swing and that resulted in the penalty.

I was told by a pro that the tour pros are tested, I believe once a year on the rules and approximately 40% pass. They just have a limited knowledge of the rules and thats why the courses have officials running around everywhere. Remember when the Pro(can't remember his name) put the towel down and improved his stance. Not allowed! TV has brought the rule book into play big time!