The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[lobsterzilla]

we're probably twins on the course honestly cheif... haha everything in your post is exactly how i feel about my game currently. Here's to hoping we both can move forward and break away from our plateaus :)

[RIduffer]

Since I joined this forum I've been reading all the S&T; info out of curiosity, and watching some youtube videos on the pattern. When I practice at the range now, I hit some irons with my weight staying on the front foot, and swinging the club a bit more inside.

I notice I get flush contact, good distance, and mostly straight shots. Makes me think I'm not doing a good job of transferring my weight in my normal swing. Unfortunately, I also get some scary hosel rockets with the weight-forward approach. I'm guessing this might be falling back through impact instead of staying on the left side? How do you guys keep from reverse-pivoting and stay solid on that front leg? I realize I should buy the S&T; dvds or books if I'm really going to give it a fair chance, but I'm just feeling things out for now. Thanks!

[lobsterzilla]

the hip thrust and the standing up through impact is the way i try and stay on the front side


if you dont want to drop however much on thedvd's grab the book and go from their.

[iacas]

How do you guys keep from reverse-pivoting and stay solid on that front leg?

It's not so much a matter of "staying" there, but starting there (55/45 or so) and then moving to 90/10 at impact or so and 95/5 at the end of the swing.

So it doesn't "stay" - it pushes more weight onto the left side from the top of the backswing on through.

[RIduffer]

Thanks iacas, makes sense. I noticed after trying the S&T; move and then returning to my usual swing, I was staying pretty centered during the backswing and standing on the left foot through impact. Maybe this is more of the feeling I need to replicate, regardless of what swing method I use.

[uttexas]

After reading the Golf Digest (current issue) S&T; basics, I tried it at the range today. It works really well. Easiest method to approach the ball from the inside. I did rarely hit a fat shot early on (I think I initially dipped a bit along with rotating my lead shoulder down. Found it helpful to have the ball a bit further back in my stance than usual. Had good success with it at the chipping green also.

How does S&T; work out of greenside bunkers? Or do you utilize a steeper swing plane for short bunker shots.

[iacas]

How does S&T; work out of greenside bunkers? Or do you utilize a steeper swing plane for short bunker shots.

Stack and Tilt is primarily a full swing move. If you want the S&T; equivalent for the short game, pick up any of Stan Utley's books. His methods for playing out of bunkers in particular are great.

[uttexas]

Thanks, I'll be self taught S&T; for the first time at the course tomorrow.

I found that a mini S&T; works great for most chips >20 yards as long as there is some green to work with. I've always wanted an Utley book for my collection.

[lobsterzilla]

^ how long have you worked on the moves before taking them to the course?

[uttexas]

Today, I was at the range for two hours. Hit 155 balls. Played an imaginary round with the last half of the balls.

Plactice the S&T; in the bathroom (mirrors on 3 sides)--wife asked recently why I have a 9i in the bathroom closet.

I know, it probably isn't enough time, but I am committed to the S&T.; I might shoot 125, but I don't care, I'm sticking with it.

[uttexas]

First round with it today. First time in my golfing life that the ball consistently ended up where my clubface was pointing at address.

Had a couple of push fades off the tee with driver and a couple of smothered mid irons, but overall hit a push draw with the irons and a straight shot with the driver.

Shot an 84. I putted really well, which made up for a huge push slice off the first tee OB. I teed off at sunrise (no lights at range) and forgot the first rule of S&T.; Keep the weight on the front foot. My distance control obviously isn't there yet and was further from the pin than usual. It was nice to watch the ball fly with a push draw back to where the clubface was aligned at address (instead of aiming slightly left with the face/closing my stance and hitting a pull fade)

[RIduffer]

I'm continuing to experiment with a S&T; style swing, though I'm only familiar with the basics. Today, I hit all my shots at the range using this approach, and had a great session, particularly with the driver.

I'd definitely like to learn some more about S&T;, so how do you guys recommend I start out (book, dvd)?

[mrprovisional]

This vid is a concern for me continuing on the S&T; method...

http://www.golf.com/golf/video/artic...61512,00.html#

Im a slicer and I haven't gone far enough on the book to counter his review on the S&T.; Help

[iacas]

This vid is a concern for me continuing on the S&T; method...

That's a stupid video for several reasons. Brady Riggs has been writing stupidly about Stack and Tilt since it came about. Don't put any stock in that video. It's laughable.

Edit (a day later): First, there's at least one good reason why Brady Riggs constantly talks crap about S&T.; From what I can tell it's a personal story... which means to say that people have hinted at the "real reason" and similar things a few times, but won't share it publicly. Take that for what it's worth - I personally think the evidence is damning enough that you don't need a "story" to make the case. Let's think about what he says... "A lot of players have gone to the swing because it helps them fix a specific problem." - Completely untrue, unless the problem is "I want to play better golf." It's not, and since that's the basis for his whole opinion and the whole video, it kind of makes the rest of the video a waste. He's right about a "good player's miss" though. But why do good players "hang back"? Because they've shifted their weight off the ball, to their right, and gotten into a reverse K situation with their head too far behind the ball. Brady says it himself: "Instead of allowing their upper body to move off the ball in the backswing..." Why on earth would you want to do that? Before I took up the S&T; swing, you know what I'd discovered? That if I kept my head pretty well centered, I could hit the ball a lot farther and a lot more solidly. I was already doing the "stack and tilt" stuff. The things I've worked on have been hand path and hip push. I came to the conclusion that "allowing my upper body to move off the ball in the backswing" was stupid years ago. Brady still isn't there, apparently. Good players on the PGA Tour can play with any swing. Heck, Tiger and Vijay are probably scratch golfers LEFT-handed... they're phenomenal athletes. Good players tend to get "stuck" a little, but how many amateurs do you see hanging back on their right side on every swing, particularly through impact and into the "follow through"? A ton. The vast majority. And it's largely because they're not finely tuned athletes who only need to compensate a little on the one-a-round bad swing like the pros. "If you're one of the many recreational golfers that struggles with a slice, it makes sense that the S&T; swing might not be right for you." Huh? S&T;'s preferred shot is a push draw. That's the opposite of a slice. You slice because you hang back and throw the club out over the plane. S&T; pushes you forward and keeps the clubhead and your hand on a circle coming from the inside. "As a slicer, chances are your weight is too far on the left side already on the backswing. Trying to duplicate the S&T; swing can actually make this worse." a) no, can't say I've ever seen too many players making that error b) how could it make it worse? Look, even if we accept what he says as true here (I don't), we all know most golfers don't finish with their weight left like they should. If they are starting with their weight left, the problem is they're actually reverse pivoting and moving to the right on their downswing - which is 100% against everything S&T; teaches. I can count on zero fingers the number of "average golfers" I've ever seen who get left and stay left really well. In the end, the easiest argument against this is stated right there early in the Stack and Tilt book. The average golfer hits a slice, but if we'd been taught through the years not to slide off the ball to the right in the backswing, we'd have a nation of people hitting draws and hooks. The S&T; swing is the easiest way to cure a slice, but Brady thinks it's only a "cure" for people who push and draw the ball - pretty much the exact opposite of what's actually true. Now, I'm not suggesting that the S&T; method is right for everyone, but Brady doesn't even get close to getting at any possible reasons why and in fact says the exact opposite. Disappointing.

[Chief Broom]

...Now, I'm not suggesting that the S&T; method is right for everyone, but Brady doesn't even get close to getting at any possible reasons why and in fact says the exact opposite. Disappointing.

I saw this video a while back (and the accompanying blurb in Golf magazine) and it pretty much put me off on considering S&T; as something I should investigate. Since I'm a slicer anything that can potentially make that worse is something I'm going to avoid like the plague. After reading more about it recently I started incorporating a few ideas from S&T; that I have incorportated when I'm hitting the ball well. The idea of getting over the ball and staying centered there while keeping my head stationary as the center of that axis is something I've always done periodically and then moved away from or forgot about. Finding out more about S&T; jibed with a lot of what I've done and seen in good players so that prompted me to explore further.

[lobsterzilla]

as Erik said ... that video is pretty much completely incorrect/ against what SnT teaches.

Dont use that video as an accurate critique of stack and tilt please.

[Dr_Fu_Manchu]

I've been toying around with the S&T; and like low penetrating draw I get, but I hate the miss which is a nasty hook. Is this normal?

Also, the swing goes against everything that I have taught myself and I have to relearn the entire swing. That being said, should I stop paying attention to Golf Digest, Playing Lessons, etc because most tips and theories are geared for a classic swing?

[lobsterzilla]

i think as with everyone our misses vary. For instance currently my miss is a Push. I always have the exact same initial trajectory which tells me that I'm being very consistant with my face angle at impact.

The reason I'm having trouble with the push is because I'm struggling a little bit getting the feel of the Hip thrust. I'm not getting "forward" enough and I'm hitting a push instead of a push draw.