Official Tiger Car Crash/Infidelity Thread

[jetman624]

Which would make him not a good guy...

I don't agree. Cheating on your wife is never ok, but sex addiction (only speculating here given the number of infidelities) is a serious problem. I don't think that one vice, no matter the size or scope,

automatically makes you an entirely bad person. But the man clearly needs help. No doubt about that.

[FHopper]

Biologically every healthy male is a sex addict, the question is whether he deals with it in a culturally appropriate way. Tiger has essentially created his own world and therefore created his own cultural norms. I am sorry his wife was not on board with his norms, she should be, she agreed to live in his world.
I hope his staff bag has a huge TW on it and he never negotiates another endorsement, all he needs to advertise is his foundation.
(to the strain of the closing scene of SHANE)
Tiger, Tiger, come back Tiger.

[DiverDown]

Biologically every healthy male is a sex addict, the question is whether he deals with it in a culturally appropriate way. Tiger has essentially created his own world and therefore created his own cultural norms. I am sorry his wife was not on board with his norms, she should be, she agreed to live in his world.

Ridiculous.

He has not created his norms. He's lied about them.

[golfdad]

Ridiculous.

concur. i would go further by asserting that even TW himself would find that ridiculous.:)

on his foundation,,,it is a shame that small kids have to learn life lessons from tiger this way. a real shame. his foundation is not about golf, mind you. it is about teaching kids to be better citizens, to take responsibility, to have integrity.

[Chas]

Absurd as it sounds (and I agree entirely with the above two posts), yes, there is a sense in which there is truth to the remark. There is indeed a "cultural norm" in some people's minds in this country that finds a 50% divorce rate - or whatever it is exactly - quite acceptable really (though they'll never admit to it), with the attendant effects on children and broader society. Someone remind me again of the median longevity of the american marriage? I could look it up but why bother - somewhere around 7 years IIRC. Behavior like that of TW is a very big part of the problem - let's not be coy about this, great ballplayer that he is.

Let's just say that there are some "cultural norms" (in the minds of many people) that need to be publicly criticized - this being one of them. What kind of a society do people wish inhabit anyway? [rhetorical]

TW made a fortune in part by pretending that he was an exemplar of our cultural norms. Now we know better. Go cry a river.

[iacas]

TW made a fortune in part by pretending that he was an exemplar of our cultural norms.

Uh, no. He made a fortune because he was/is arguably the best athlete in the world.

If you assumed he was a great guy off the golf course that's your own dumb fault. He's not even a "great guy" ON the golf course. He's a great golfer and athlete.

[golfdad]

Uh, no. He made a fortune because he was/is arguably the best athlete in the world.

the majority of his net worth has come from endorsements, not from golf earnings. prior to the car wreck saga and the revelation thereafter, tiger's image has been what advertisers would die for: multicultural/global appeal, competitive/talented, family value with kids and wife, role model for kids with foundation, etc. the wholesome package is made of those 4 items and now he is missing the latter 2, if not 3.

tiger owed the corporate world for getting where he has been despite his god like golf skills. the other side of the coin is that the corporate world does not owe anything to tiger. when the potato gets too hot, they simply drop you. he can return and continue to be the best golfer, but i suspect the corporate world, those aiming for broader appeals, will find this recent saga hard to forget. the rehab will take a long time, if not forever as far as getting the corporate world on his side again.

[ControlJunkie]

he can return and continue to be the best golfer, but i suspect the corporate world, those aiming for broader appeals, will find this recent saga hard to forget. the rehab will take a long time, if not forever as far as getting the corporate world on his side again.

The primary reason for those sposors endorsing any athlete is to associate themselves with a winner/champion/great performance. That way, when you see their ads with that particular athlete, you subconciously think that company is great. When Tiger wins again, be it this year or next, or whatever, the sponsors will be back.

[iacas]

the majority of his net worth has come from endorsements, not from golf earnings.

I never said he got most of his money from golf earnings. I said he got his endorsements because he's good at golf. Big difference.

prior to the car wreck saga and the revelation thereafter, tiger's image has been what advertisers would die for: multicultural/global appeal, competitive/talented, family value with kids and wife, role model for kids with foundation, etc. the wholesome package is made of those 4 items and now he is missing the latter 2, if not 3.

Have you ever been responsible for signing an athlete to a $10M deal? Suffice to say you're guessing at what they were paying for or what they expected.

I think they paid Tiger because he kicked ass at golf. He was understood to have tremendous focus, will-power, and ability on the golf course. Tiger signed huge contracts when he was unmarried. He signed huge contracts when he was effectively a college drop-out. He's continued to sign the contracts as he's gotten married, had kids, etc. In all these ads, his family has been featured in exactly zero so far as I can tell. He is shown alone - almost always portrayed as a golfer - in the advertisements. Also, the companies he's represented aren't exactly "family brands." They're male brands that utilize Tiger as a kick-ass golfer. The people who chose to endorse Tiger did so because he was a dominant athlete. That's it. Again, if you wanted to assume he was a great guy because he won a lot of golf tournaments, that's your mistake.

tiger owed the corporate world for getting where he has been despite his god like golf skills.

What? Tiger got to where he is - and became such a valuable guy to have in marketing campaigns - because of his golf skills. There's no "despite" here and there's no "owing" the "corporate world."

The primary reason for those sposors endorsing any athlete is to associate themselves with a winner/champion/great performance. That way, when you see their ads with that particular athlete, you subconciously think that company is great. When Tiger wins again, be it this year or next, or whatever, the sponsors will be back.

Yeah. Tiger = great athlete. The only reason a few companies have put a hold on their Tiger ads or dropped him is because, currently, people don't think "kick-ass golfer" when they see Tiger. They don't think "athlete."

[golfdad]

The primary reason for those sposors endorsing any athlete is to associate themselves with a winner/champion/great performance. That way, when you see their ads with that particular athlete, you subconciously think that company is great. When Tiger wins again, be it this year or next, or whatever, the sponsors will be back.

never say never. there is always a possibility. if i have 100 dollars to bet, i would put 99 dollars on "things won't be the same again" and donate the one dolla to kids lead astray by tiger

i define kids lead astray as those kid who think if you are good in sports, you can be all you can be. america loves underdogs and comeback stories. but tiger is no rocky. what he did has zero redeeming value. at least half of the world population, aka, the females, barring night club hostesses, find his actions disgusting. can good golf save the day? i don't think tiger is sure, but yes, yes, yes in the hearts of die hard golf fans!

[sean_miller]

never say never. there is always a possibility. if i have 100 dollars to bet, i would put 99 dollars on "things won't be the same again" and donate the one dolla to kids lead astray by tiger

If you had a spare $100, you'd gamble $99 and give $1 to a non-existent charity. Neat.

[ERC7.5]

the majority of his net worth has come from endorsements, not from golf earnings. prior to the car wreck saga and the revelation thereafter, tiger's image has been what advertisers would die for: multicultural/global appeal, competitive/talented, family value with kids and wife, role model for kids with foundation, etc. the wholesome package is made of those 4 items and now he is missing the latter 2, if not 3.

Tigers image is what advertisers would die for because his image is that of a winner, a champion....because he kicks ass in his arena.

If you say it's based on his persona....of which was one of a very private person....then that makes no sense. Michael Jordan didn't get his endorsements based on anything other than being the best in basketball... Wayne Gretzky in hockey....Bo Jackson for a very short time in Football and now Peyton Manning. Once Jordan went to baseball.....he didn't retain all of his endorsement deals. Why? Because he wasn't the best at anything any longer.

[golfdad]

Tigers image is what advertisers would die for because his image is that of a winner, a champion....because he kicks ass in his arena.

i have no argument with your logic, except here is my question, to go further on this...

assuming tiger comes out playing soon and starts winning again, and, at the same time, he continues to develop more personal and embarassing issues that he cannot openly discuss, you still think, based on the reasoning that he kicks ass in his arena and have his ass kicked in his personal life, that advertisers would flock back?

[iacas]

at least half of the world population, aka, the females, barring night club hostesses, find his actions disgusting.

So what? Women weren't the targets of any of his advertisements.

Tiger was highly paid as an endorser because he was a great athlete. That's it.

and now Peyton Manning.

That's a good example. There are rumors that he's quite a man about town and is into hookers and things too, but he's paid as an endorser because people think "good football player" when they see him.

Jordan, Bo Jackson, also good examples. Look, golfdad and Chas can do everything within their power to pretend it's fact that the advertisers or Tiger were pushing some "family man" type image, but neither history nor common sense support that argument at all.

[golfdad]

So what? Women weren't the targets of any of his advertisements.

since i have never signed any athletes to any dollar amt, you would have excuse me for not being able to validate the assertion that only men are the targets of tiger's ads (cars, phone service, beverage, etc)

and, i don't underestand how can manning be compared with tiger, to use the manning template to try to contain the issues confronting tiger. different scales, people.

[ERC7.5]

i have no argument with your logic, except here is my question, to go further on this...

I made no mention of his advertisers flocking back. Do I think every single one of them will? No. Do I care? Nope.

I saw your post, the quoted portion made no sense to me so I commented on it. Simple as that.

[iacas]

you would have excuse me for not being able to validate the assertion that only men are the targets of tiger's ads (cars, phone service, beverage, etc)

Strikes me as common sense. Men are the targets for golf clubs, razor blades, business consulting, athletic beverages...

Women are in the target market for "AT&T;" and Tag Heuer, but that's company-wide. They're not in the target market for the advertisements/endorsements which featured Tiger. Look at the time slots when Tiger ads ran. Almost all during times when men would be watching. Has there ever been a Tiger ad on Lifetime or Oxygen? Tiger's ads targeted men and played on the fact that he's a dominant athlete.

and, i don't underestand how can manning be compared with tiger, to use the manning template to try to contain the issues confronting tiger. different scales, people.

Peyton is a great example of a guy being paid as an athlete and nothing more. He's one of the highest paid athletes off-the-field today, making the scales rather comparable, despite your proclamations of the opposite.

And here's another variation of what I've been saying :

Source: URL Above Bamberger: Tiger is the best human interest story that golf's ever had. The guy who can explain Tiger's dominance will make you forget all about the Little Red Book. He did his best to make himself look uninteresting, but his scorecards proved otherwise. People keep saying, "Oh, he made all this money in endorsements trading on his reputation as a family man." It's almost funny. He made his money, all of it, on his greatness. As an athlete.

Again, Tiger's been paid because he's a good athlete. I for one hope he gets back to being an "athlete" sooner rather than later. I still don't care about his personal life. I don't care if he's divorced or married. I don't care what products he endorses. I just like to see him play good golf and, perhaps, to witness history when/if he breaks records.

[ERC7.5]

since i have never signed any athletes to any dollar amt, you would have excuse me for not being able to validate the assertion that only men are the targets of tiger's ads (cars, phone service, beverage, etc)

The comparison is that their endorsement deals are only because of what they do as an athelete...not what they do outside of their profession. Their lives outside of their profession can obviously effect these deals but you'd made the assertion that these deals that Tiger had were based on more than what he has done as an athelete....and you continue to put spin on it.

A lot of his deals came well before the family....so in reality, if your equation is true (multicultural/global appeal + competitive/talented + family value with kids and wife + role model for kids with foundation = endorsement contracts)....his deals were based off of 3 of your 4 components and is now missing....one?