Correlation between Handicap Index and Club Quality?

[iacas]

I don't think their is much of a correlation.

There's incredibly high correlation.

There's just very little dependence. If you work on your game enough to get down to low handicap range, you care about golf. You put more money into the game and more time and you tend to have "better" clubs. I don't generally like Wikipedia, but don't confuse cause/effect (dependence) and correlation:

Source: Wikipedia Correlations can also suggest possible causal, or mechanistic relationships; however statistical dependence is not sufficient to demonstrate the presence of such a relationship.

Not many scratch golfers out there with a boxed set of Acuity clubs.

[sean_miller]

Funny you should mention that, I have an old persimmon driver I took to the range yesterday (Top-Flite Spalding from probably the early 70s, with a steel TT Dynamic Lite shaft). It feels pretty sweet, definately launches lower than my current driver, and the distance is less (maybe 20-30 yards). But I think on a really windy day it might do better given the low flight I was getting. The strange thing was I had trouble hitting a draw with it even thought it had a "medium" shaft and my Callaway driver has a stiff shaft which I rarely have trouble hitting a draw with.

There are (or rather, were) a lot of persimmon clubs matched to graphite shafts. The problem with persimmon isn't the shaft, it's the reaction of clubhead when it meets ball. It doesn't have the trampoline effect (COR) seen in modern drivers. The ball also spends a moment longer on the clubface, which can magnify hooks and slices. If you hit a powerfade with 2008 metal driver and a 2008 ball, that same swing with persimmon and a wound ball might be a banana slice over the trees. I can do amazing things off the tee with persimmon (like my 60s era Burke 3-wood) that are not likely with metal. Good thing. High handicap players (which thanks to poor putting, I basically am) don't really need to paint the sky with curving tee balls. We just need to get the ball in play.

A perfectly struck persimmon driver can not go as far as a perfectly struck modern driver. It's impossible. But when it happens, it feels great. I find that better players don't still play persimmon, but they do tend to favour smaller headed clubs with less forgiveness. Forgiveness over control is not their M.O.

[Fat Slice]

Many better players can "work" the ball left to right - they tend to want to have clubs that make that possible, which are usually more expensive. Many better players use the spin of an expensive ball around the green. Most better players have better clubs. People "grow out" of their equipment, same as in any sport, they trade forgiveness for control - almost always at a price.

People get better, then upgrade their gear (not the other way around).

[sean_miller]

Many better players can "work" the ball left to right - they tend to want to have clubs that make that possible, which are usually more expensive. Many better players use the spin of an expensive ball around the green. Most better players have better clubs. People "grow out" of their equipment, same as in any sport, they trade forgiveness for control - almost always at a price.

I find that entry level clubs - that's really what we're talking about, isn't it? - tend to have an awkward swing weight (too high for cheap shafts), a lot of bounce and offset, and are just generally fat / thick. It's almost like club makers assume a new golfer needs to have something heavy or beefy in their hands to inspire confidenc to go after the ball.

They then have to add a lot of bounce so new golfers don't dig up the course and dislocate their elbow and shoulders while hitting an 8 iron and leaving it in the ground. What is designed to inspire confidence in a novice, inspires rage once improvements are made. A "step up" and an inevitable new club purchase is engineered right into the equipment. Like any sport.

[Leftygolfer]

I don't see a price difference between Players clubs and GI clubs. But yes the better you are the better clubs you play. It doesn't make you better but you tend to care. There is some very expensive GI irons.

[WUTiger]

Fat Slice

said...

Many better players can "work" the ball left to right - they tend to want to have clubs that make that possible, which are usually more expensive. Many better players use the spin of an expensive ball around the green. ...

There's two skill levels of working the ball. Defensive working: fading or drawing the ball to move away from trouble. Offensive working: you're curving the ball in order to better attack the pin.

I'm at the defensive phase right now - you can work the ball with UGI clubs. It's just that you can work it more precisely with Player's or GI clubs. But, in order to work it precisely , you need a better swing. Players clubs + unstable swing = lots of missed shots. Bottom line: If you clubs are keeping you from reaching the next level, it's time to switch. This is what Jay-Bird was talking about in describing his route from Lynx..20+ to MP57..2 HDCP.

[jamo]

There's incredibly high correlation.

In AP Psychology we call this Correlation vs. Causation