How many putts?

[Lbob]

I'm big on numbers. The stars might lie but the numbers seldom do. I want to get an idea how well I am doing with the putter. My suspicion is that it is an area I really need to improve on. I chart the number of putt I make each round, and my average is a bit over 36. I don't think this is too good because hit only 8 or 9 greens in regulation. Now I realize that there are a lot of variables, like sometimes you miss-hit a shot that goes on the green and get left with a 70 foot putt and do the old 3-putt boogey. Also your chipping/wedge game comes into play. But all else aside, here's how I figure a reasonable goal:

1) Number of greens hit in regulation times 2
2) Greens missed times 1.5

I figure that if you miss the green you should get up and down about one time in four. At least that's a reasonable number for a 17 handicapper.

So then for example if i his on average 8 greens in regulation that would work out to 16 putts for those greens. For the 10 greens I miss, I should have 15 putts. Added up I should have about 31 putts if I'm putting well.

Does this sound reasonable?

[iacas]

1) Number of greens hit in regulation times 2

1.5 putts is one time in two (assuming no chip-ins), not one in four. One in four would be 7/4 (1.75). I'd stick with 1.5 though - better to be ambitious.

So yeah, (10 * 1.5) + (8 * 2) = 15 + 16 = 31. Thus 36 is way too many. If you're taking 36 putts, you're not making up ANY ground anywhere.

[prutkows]

im not the greatest putter, but i usually have less than 25 putts just because i usually either stick it within 10 feet, or i'll miss the green and end up on the fringe or somewhere close... then i have a chip/pitch that usually gets close enough for a 1 putt.

[cdriver]

If I am playing well, I will average around 22-26 putts per round. I very seldom 3 putt because I spend a lot of time working on lag putting and chipping. As Pelz figured out when he was charting the pros, the money shots are from inside 100 yards.

[iacas]

im not the greatest putter, but i usually have less than 25 putts just because i usually either stick it within 10 feet, or i'll miss the green and end up on the fringe or somewhere close... then i have a chip/pitch that usually gets close enough for a 1 putt.

If I am playing well, I will average around 22-26 putts per round. I very seldom 3 putt because I spend a lot of time working on lag putting and chipping. As Pelz figured out when he was charting the pros, the money shots are from inside 100 yards.

C'mon guys, the leading putter on the PGA Tour averages nearly 28 putts per round. Phil averages nearly 29. Woods averages nearly 30 (and leads in GIR). Yes, as amateurs we miss more greens (and also don't get up and down as often), but 22-25 or 26? I call BS (like in the card game). With 22 putts you can't EVER three-putt. You also get up and down 14 of 14 times and two-putt the FOUR greens you hit in regulation.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I have my doubts. I've never seen anyone consistently average less than 27 putts per round... and that was and old guy I knew who'd been playing the same course for 30 years and which has greens the size of table tops - the longest putts you could have were 25 feet. Plus each of you (oddly) have 9.2 handicap indexes. Let's assume 25 putts per round and an average course (72/113). You're shooting 81 on your good days. That leaves 56 other shots (including those putts from the fringe, yes) - 20 more than if you hit every GIR. If you are averaging 25 putts per round, clearly you need to work on some other parts of your game to be taking 56 shots to get onto the greens. That's three shots per green + four shots on two other greens. For comparison, I'm a 3.7 index currently. My GIR % this year is 49.14%. My average # of putts is 30.69 (and yes, I score that properly - putts from the fringe aren't putts, etc.). My scrambling percentage is 40.53% overall (miss GIR, still make par).

[CusePhil]

I always thought that the less GIR you have, the less putts you have. This is becuase your approach shots are either much shorter, or from the fringe. Also total putts always equal the best putter, putts per GIR is more accurate in my opinion. 25-26 putts a round isn't out of the question. If approach shots are from 50 yards in, or from the fringe, one putts are very likely.

[NCGolfer]

im not the greatest putter, but i usually have less than 25 putts just because i usually either stick it within 10 feet, or i'll miss the green and end up on the fringe or somewhere close... then i have a chip/pitch that usually gets close enough for a 1 putt.

I second your BS. If you have 25 or less putts, you would be a plus handicap or someone who never hits greens and gets up and down every time.

I'm a scratch and my average putts this year is around 30-31. I'll hit about 10-11 greens and get up and down about half the time. 10 greens * 1.9 putts per GIR = 19 putts 8 greens * 1.5 putts per missed GIR = 12 putts Total of 31 putts. That's shooting about 3 over. If I'm around par it is because I make one more putt and hit one or two more greens. Depending on which of those happen, it can actually increase my putts per round. Do me a favor prutkows, keep your stats on your next round and let us know how you fare in number of putts. I keep my stats religously and have only had two rounds in the last 3 years with 25 or less putts. Two . 27.84 is the lowest anyone averages on tour. You're 3 shots better than the best touring pro on the green? Just keep your stats and you'll see.

[NCGolfer]

I always thought that the less GIR you have, the less putts you have. This is becuase your approach shots are either much shorter, or from the fringe. Also total putts always equal the best putter, putts per GIR is more accurate in my opinion. 25-26 putts a round isn't out of the question. If approach shots are from 50 yards in, or from the fringe, one putts are very likely.

It is true that the less GIR you have, the less putts you have. 25-26 putts in a round isn't out of the question either...but as an average, it is out of the question.

In fact, no touring pro has ever averaged less than 27.5 putts per round. I can't see earlier than 1980, but putts per round were actually higher back in the early 80's than they are now. Again, I know they hit more greens, but these guys can putt it.

[Lbob]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll keep using the optomistic (but math challenged) method.

[prutkows]

I second your BS. If you have 25 or less putts, you would be a plus handicap or someone who never hits greens and gets up and down every time.

ok first, i highly doubt the courses i play are as tough as the courses the tour players play. second, ive made it clear in a few threads that my handicap is an approximation of what it was before i re-started playing 2 months ago. ive also previously said that ive played 17 rounds over the past 2 months, scores of 75-79 on par 72 courses. third. i'll outline a round for you. hole1: par5. on the fringe in 3, chip on the green, 1 putt for par. hole2: par4. on the fringe in 2, chip on again, 1 putt again for par hole3: par4. fringe in 2, chip, 1putt. par hole4: par3. miss the green, bad chip, 2 putts for bogey. hole5: par4. green in2, 2putt par. hole6: par4. on the green in 4. 1 putt bogey hole7: par5. on the green in five, 1 putt bogey. hole8: par3. on the green in 1, 1 putt birdie. hole9: par4. on in 3, 1 putt par. so far thats 11 putts. score is 38. hole10: par 4. on in 2, 2 putts for par hole11: par5. on in 4, 1 putt par hole12: par4. on in 3, 1 putt par hole13: par3. on the green in 3, 1 putt bogey hole 14: par4. on in 3, 2 putt bogey hole15: par4. on in 2, 1 putt birdie hole16: par5. on in 3, 2 putt par hole17: par 3. on in 2, 1 putt par hole 18: par4. on in 3 2 putt bogey back 9: 13 putts, another 38. that makes 24 putts and a round of 76. thats a pretty typical round for me. i miss a lot of greens, chip it close, and tap it in. i dont see why thats so hard to believe. i dont have 3 putts because i almost never get a GIR with anything but a short iron. im not here to lie about my stats to make myself look like a great player because i know im not. obviously i just manage the course very differently than you think.

[iacas]

ok first, i highly doubt the courses i play are as tough as the courses the tour players play.

That's largely irrelevant, actually. We're talking about putting. The quality of the greens we play on makes up for any "extra difficult" greens they play. i.e. our greens aren't as well maintained as theirs - bumpy putts are tougher to make than smooth ones, etc.

second, ive made it clear in a few threads that my handicap is an approximation of what it was before i re-started playing 2 months ago. ive also previously said that ive played 17 rounds over the past 2 months, scores of 75-79 on par 72 courses.

Fair enough. You're a 5 handicap at the worst. I still don't believe 22-26 putts. And I'm not judging... I just think you're fooling yourself.

third. i'll outline a round for you.

This is a round you've made up, is the way I read it. In this mythical round (by my quick count) you:

1) take 24 putts and shoot 76 2) only fail to get up and down once (succeeding 7/8 times) 3) average 1.6 putts per GIR

that makes 24 putts and a round of 76. thats a pretty typical round for me. i miss a lot of greens, chip it close, and tap it in. i dont see why thats so hard to believe.

Because that makes your short game - after not playing for years and only playing again for two months - better than the best PGA Tour pro... ever.

Corey Pavin leads with 66.5% scrambling (you: 87.5%). It's been pointed out that the leading pros average 27 to 28 putts per round (you: 24). The best PPGIR this year is over 1.7 (you blow past that with 1.6).

i dont have 3 putts because i almost never get a GIR with anything but a short iron. im not here to lie about my stats to make myself look like a great player because i know im not. obviously i just manage the course very differently than you think.

It's not about course management. And again I'm not saying I don't believe you because I'm trying to disparage your game - clearly I've never seen it. I'm saying I don't believe you because I believe it statiscally improbable. As in close enough to impossible that rounding up to the nearest thousandth would yield "impossible."

I just quoted Pelz in another thread as saying the average PGA Tour pro makes only 50% of his six footers. I doubt that your 7/8 scrambling performance (87.5% - beating the PGA Tour's best by 20%) includes you chipping every ball to within three feet. If your example round (from above) is typical, well, you possess a short game skill beyond the level of even the best PGA Tour player. But hey, I don't know you and you don't know me, so... just do us (and yourself) a favor: keep track of your next five rounds as you did in the made up one above. Note the distance of your first putt(s). Post the results when they're done. I'll trust you to be honest and you can trust me to say "I was wrong" if I am wrong. But, given the level you're claiming, I'm not sure I'll be saying it...

[prutkows]

But hey, I don't know you and you don't know me, so... just do us (and yourself) a favor: keep track of your next five rounds as you did in the made up one above. Note the distance of your first putt(s). Post the results when they're done. I'll trust you to be honest and you can trust me to say "I was wrong" if I am wrong.

gah! anyway, this is going to seem like a cop out or whatever, but im leaving for college in exactly 10 days and i dont have time to play 5 rounds. if i remember this though, i'll send you a PM sometime in december when im home for christmas vacation. after reading your analysis of that round, i am actually starting to think maybe my count of putts is wrong, theres no way im that good of a player. i'll definitely look into it though.

[iacas]

gah! anyway, this is going to seem like a cop out or whatever, but im leaving for college in exactly 10 days and i dont have time to play 5 rounds. if i remember this though, i'll send you a PM sometime in december when im home for christmas vacation. after reading your analysis of that round, i am actually starting to think maybe my count of putts is wrong, theres no way im that good of a player. i'll definitely look into it though.

I want to believe you, by the way, just so I can claim to have the greatest short game player ever in the history of the world using my forum, but...

One thing from before:

im not the greatest putter, but i usually have less than 25 putts just because i usually either stick it within 10 feet, or i'll miss the green and end up on the fringe or somewhere close... then i have a chip/pitch that usually gets close enough for a 1 putt.

It statistically makes no sense that you "either stick it within 10 feet" or land within the fringe. The fringe is usually a yard wide. The green is a WHOLE lot larger. It's statistically improbable, again, that you'd have a high density of shots within a 10 foot radius, a low density from 10 feet to the fringe, and again a high density within a yard of the green (or two or three if you want to include the greenside rough and fringe).

10 days and you can't play five rounds? BTW, I'm confused about one thing: you're male or female? Either way, why aren't you playing golf for your college team? If you are a female, and I don't recall which college you said you were going to (somewhere in St. Louis?), I can't imagine you'd be below the #3 person with a recent scoring average of 75 or 76... women get scholarships barely breaking 90.

[prutkows]

I want to believe you, by the way, just so I can claim to have the greatest short game player ever in the history of the world using my forum, but...

i'm male. 10 days and i have a lot of stuff to do for school.

i plan on playing next year. i really dont think i'll have time for a job + sport during this school year, especially since the season starts in the beginning of the year and adjusting to an entirely new life is hard enough without focusing on golf too.

[Lbob]

I think that one thing this thread did is highlight the importance of keeping stats on your rounds. I do research for a living, and one thing I learned really quickly is that subjective impressions are highly innaccurate. I thought I was a pretty good putter until I started charting my putts. Then I was horrified. Of course part of it is the chipping/wedge game. I'm only averageing about 2 to 3 up and downs per round. And don't get me stared about the sand....

I'm firmly convinced that Dave Pelz's idea of a scoring zone inside 100 yards is correct. Right now the empahsis is on getting better with my lag putts to avoid the 3 putt blues.

[Rafcin]

my 2 cents (if anybody cares..): Playing 6 years I think I had one round with 25 putts - and it was the one when I shot 67. When I keep it at 30 - I'm happy.
a "22-25 average" statement can be only true if every green is perfectly flat, evenly cut, the same speed and hole is always placed in a collection area where balls are feeding right into it.

[NCGolfer]

a "22-25 average" statement can be only true if every green is perfectly flat, evenly cut, the same speed and hole is always placed in a collection area where balls are feeding right into it.

You had that dream too?

[rembrandt]

I usually average around 32 to 34 putts per round and I'm not playing well right now, but even if I can get the handicap down the putting won't drop much. It's rather difficult to get the putting strokes down very much as you can see how the pros average. They make alot of 5 to 8 footers that we miss.