New golfer: when to buy first clubs?

[Rafcin]

... Players and pro's at Muirfield, players and pro's from the Golfworks like Maltby, the ex-VP from Vulcan golf .. players and pro's from Clemson and some players and pro's from the Magnolia Grove in Mobile (Trent Jones course)

a sponsorship contract might make you say a lot of things

My home course pro-shop carries a lot of low-cost equipment and I did demo some of the irons. I've to tell you - if there is really no difference - then I'm a snob and I let myself being suggested by the brand name. IMHO the feel at impact, weight, consistency and even looks - are very important and are not duplicated easily. I rather save up before I buy new equipment (or stalk it on eBay for weeks and weeks)... but it's of course a personal thing. It's just hard to belive that the "giants" are getting away with a scam of this magnitude, if their product is really not superior

[DSH]

Ttee, thanks for input on quality of clones.

If I'm reading it right, I see you have a set of hybrids (and wedges) and have no conventional irons. How does that work for you? GG has one brand of hybrids in a complete range like the Tour Max -- in fact they look like clones of the Tour Max. So now you have me thinking about those. When I first saw them on the GG web site I wondered if anyone had replaced all irons right down to the 9i with hybrids, and since it looks like you have done just that would really appreciate knowing if you like it and recommend it for a newbie like me.
Thanks!

[ttee9]

then I'm a snob and I let myself being suggested by the brand name.

.... It's nice to see you're finally getting honest with yourself ....

[Rafcin]

.... It's nice to see you're finally getting honest with yourself ....

finally? C'mon - you can accuse me of a lot, from being a pig to a real prick - but I always keep it "real". WSIWG

But seriously - how many of us don't do that? If you can afford it (and I'm lucky enough to marry a woman who makes more than me - and I'm proud of it ! ) - would you buy a knock-off or a true deal? Somehow I've hard time to believe, that all people driving a Saturn do that because they belive it's a better car... It's in human nature to seek the best. If it wasn't so - the whole advertisment industry would be useless...

[RickRevue]

I think you're getting to the real point RAFCIN...why do we buy a certain club...or anything for that matter?

Why do people feel that clones are "bad" even though they may never have tried them?

I was just thinking about why I bought my used set of TM RAC OS. I could have bought clones...or Pings...or whatever.

Was it because I tested all available clubs and found they were the best? No

Was it because the price was right? maybe

Was it because I had my heart set on those clubs and "believed" that they were going to make me happy? Probably

The classic marketing axiom is...

"People buy on emotion and justify it with logic"

[Rafcin]

..."People buy on emotion and justify it with logic"...

agreed. Marketing is a science and I'm not a specialist, I can only speak for myself.

If I see a no-name driver for $100 and a Titleist for $200 - I'll get the Titleist if I can afford $200. Why? "beacuse there HAS TO be a reason why this one is more expensive - so it's better". Is it really? I don't care

[RickRevue]

It's all good RAFCIN...I'd do the same thing myself...at least if I wasn't taking food out of my kids mouths...or iPods. hmmm...OK maybe I would.

[SuaSponteMn]

Why do people feel that clones are "bad" even though they may never have tried them?

From the Taylormade website:

While many knock-off clubs look strikingly similar to the clubs they try to emulate, they fall well short in the area of playability characteristics. The quality control of most knock-off clubs is also terrible and at a low level. We have tested knock-off drivers that measure 14.5◦ of loft but were engraved as 10.5◦. This would be like hitting a 3-wood instead of a driver. I agree with this, you're not only paying for the name, your paying for the quality control the name provides. Titleist isn't going to put too many bad clubs out there, because with the retail market as competitive as it is and with consumers being as finicky as they are, it wouldn't take long to become a "cheap club" manufacturer. Another arguement is related to customer service, MOST of the larger companies will replace defective clubs, no questions asked; who's going to replace my "Fling Rye Too" 7 iron? "People buy on emotion and justify it with logic" This is a generalization, there are plenty of people out there that do the research, demo or test drive or whatever, and then make their choices based on the facts they've found along the way.

[RickRevue]

Believe me I know there are bad clones out there. And their are crummy manufacturers (assemblers) of those clubs. TaylorMade may have found one of those.

But if you find a name brand clone; Acer, Turbo Power, Power Play, or many others... AND the manufacturer assembles that head with a name brand shaft and a name brand grip AND fits that club to your height, arm length, hand size, swing speed AND gives you a one year warranty AND gives you 30 days to find out if you like it or if it fits (or to check the lofts and lies if you want) and you pay 30% of what the name brand club was sold for...

Chances are you will have a club that is a good value. I'm not even saying it's 100% as good as a name brand...but what about 95% as good for 30% of the price.

Unless you are better than a 5 handicap, I bet you won't be able to tell the difference. I can't tell the difference. I may still buy the brand, (I did) but it won't be because that brand is "better for me" than the clone. It's because I "wanted" the brand more.

Like I said before, I went from a 20 handicap to a 5 with my old clone clubs. Honestly, I'm probably scoring worse now with my new branded irons, but it's not because of them (I wish), but ...well let's blame old age for this one.

Anway, please, not to argue or be-labor the point... my OPINION is, after using them and studying the market...a good clone golf club is just as good as a name brand club for me. That's all.

Why not go buy a clone hybrid club for $35 or a single iron for $25 and decide for yourself. If you're honest I bet you will agree.

[iacas]

Why not go buy a clone hybrid club for $35 or a single iron for $25 and decide for yourself. If you're honest I bet you will agree.

I don't believe in supporting true "clones" - clubs made to look like another club by a more popular or "name brand" equipment company. True clones cost very little in R&D; and I'd rather support the companies doing the actual research.

True "clones" often get too close to "illegal" or at least "immoral" for me to want to support them. P.S. Has anyone made the "confidence" argument yet? Right or wrong, I'm a lot more confident putting a TaylorMade or Titleist driver behind my ball than one from Bob's Driver Barn (or whatever).

[SuaSponteMn]

Why not go buy a clone hybrid club for $35 or a single iron for $25 and decide for yourself. If you're honest I bet you will agree.

Why would I waste 35.00 to 25.00? I'm completely confident in my equipment, that's the beauty of buying the original item over something that copies it; I don't need to compare. I have no desire to place any other clubs in my bag currently other than a HiBore 3 wood as soon as it's made left-handed.

[ttee9]

finally? C'mon - you can accuse me of a lot, from being a pig to a real prick - but I always keep it "real". WSIWG

.... The best club in the world, is the club that works best for "that" particular player ... if it says Ping and they play well and they love the feel and the touch, then that is the best club in the world for them ... if the club says Billy Bobs barbeque and Pawn shop and they love the feel and the lower scores - then

that is very best club for that player ... As far as marketing, do you think stores like 2nd Swing are popping up all over the country and flooded with 3 month old clubs because folks made the right decision - heck no.! .... they saw their favorite player on TV use it and they went out and payed their $400 and are now wandering the golf courses looking for the last 250 balls they just lost ..l.o.l... I can't believe the thought pattern .. " "beacuse there HAS TO be a reason why this one is more expensive - so it's better". Really....? .. hmmm, Mercedes Benz is one of the most expensive vehicles on the road - and certainly strokes the ego ... but, also has one of the lowest CSI's on the market. ... so much for your theory. Me personally, I feel good in my own skin .. names don't do it, action does.

[iacas]

I can't believe the thought pattern .. "

The thing is, the two of you have different definitions for "better."

To one guy, a car may be "better" if it gets 50 MPG. To another, it may be "better" if it helps him get laid more easily. I'm a name brand guy for things that matter. Always have been and likely always will be. Golf is one of my passions, and I don't want to doubt whether a set of knockoffs will perform at a similar level as my name-brand clubs. Sure, 98% of the performance for 20% of the cost sounds like a good deal, but I want that last 2% if I can get it for a "reasonable" price, and "reasonable" for me is $1000 for a set of irons, $400 or so for a driver, etc. With clones and the non-name-brand equipment, you can never really be sure what you're getting. With name-brand stuff, you do - at least to a far greater extent.

[ttee9]

The thing is, the two of you have different definitions for "better."

... Sorry Erik, but no one said anything about "better" ..

The words used is here is "expensive - so it's better" ... cost really has nothing to do with it .. like my great Grand-Daddy used to say - "the hand buys what the eye see's ..." And lets be honest here, there's no guarantee of quality for "any" club manufacturer ... you were maybe at Firestone last year, one of the first thing the players check is the lie of the club ... last year the Cleveland truck was filled with wedges that read a 56* and they were 53* and the 60* lobs were 58* (not knocking Cleveland, I've also seen Titleist and many others have "imperfections") ... but hey, they're mass produced. Whether someone spends $1,400 or $400, it's all in the feel of the wheel ..

[iacas]

... Sorry Erik, but no one said anything about "better" ..

Uhhhhh.... too obvious or should I actually point it out?

[ttee9]

Ttee, thanks for input on quality of clones.

From one of my previous posts:

..... Do some field tests and take on some courses ... first, you gotta like the way they look, then you have to like the feel of the club in your hands and the swing motion .... It's like anything else in life they can look good, but if they're not playing well for you then you need to go to plan "B" ... I played Cleveland TA5's and the Adams ST's woods for a few years .. in 02 they were "the big dogs" and they were fitted, they were one of the very first in black matte and they sure were puuurty .. I probably got asked 15 times in 2 years about who, what and where about those clubs ..... the problem was, I didn't play well with them and after awhile I lost confidence and I couldn't keep my score under 90 on any consistent basis .. one day I would shoot an 85 and the next day I would shoot an 95 (on the same course) - the hybrids.? - cut 10 strokes of my game on a consistent basis. The big difference is, when you go to play longer and tougher courses and you have the confidence to do so .. especially since I play 240/250 rounds a year and we're moving back south. But before I switched, I played everything on my local track first just to get the feel and touch ... you name it, Nike, Vulcan, Cobra, Tour Edge, Nickent, Callaway, Cleveland, Taylor, etc etc, .... what I didn't do, was to listen to 15 opinions from 15 different players and sales guys at the local "ball shop" (thats what got me in trouble in the first place) .. Like my instructor said: "unless you can find the exact twin to yourself, then a doorknob has as much credibility.." That all said .... the current owner of my TA5's now has dropped from a 20 handicap to 12 handicap -- that just goes to show "the right club in the right hand works everytime ...." Take your time, it's your $$ and your game.! Enjoy.!

[DSH]

Thanks Ttee. You are the voice of reason!