Hips vs shoulders

[wildcorndog]

I wish someone could explain this relationship to me in detail..all i hear is clear your hips! clear your hips! but if i speed my hips up my shoulders are way to open at impact causing a wicked slice...

[wildcorndog]

interesting? what do you guys think of this guy?

[Jcp907]

I will watch this thread as I am having issues understanding the proper sequencing as well. So far this is what I believe:

From the top, do not rotate the shoulders forward until my hands clear of the right hip. A swing thought for me is to keep my back to the target until my hands are hip high, and at this point, my hips begin to accelerate through their slide/rotation.

In other words, from the top of the backswing, I drop my arms with the top of the grip headed towards the ball. With my hands at the height of my right hip, my knees are square, the hips are starting to slide and accelerate and my shoulders haven't really started rotating yet. As my hips slide and rotate (left hip up, right hip down) into impact, my shoulders are parallel to the target line but tilted with the left side up, and my hips are open. This does require work on flexibility for me.

With that said, this is my interperetation of what my instructor is teaching. I believe it's right.

[Jcp907]

interesting? what do you guys think of this guy?

That squat thought might cause me to collapse my right side, causing inconsistency. I am working on building an efficient golf swing with as few add-ons or compensations as possible. This will lead to the fewest points of possible failure, hopefully leading to more consistency. I believe there is a more efficient way to arrive at the proper timing. The stick through the belt loops does seem like a good drill, I would eliminate the squat though.

Just my $.02

[senorchipotle]

this should provide what you need.

[david_wedzik]

I wish someone could explain this relationship to me in detail..all i hear is clear your hips! clear your hips! but if i speed my hips up my shoulders are way to open at impact causing a wicked slice...

This is one of the reasons why "clear your hips" in itself is not good advice. It sounds as if you end up with both your hips AND SHOULDERS open at impact (the shoulders open part is the biggest issue here as the hips should be open at impact) and that will cause you to hit across the ball and slice. The hips must move forward (linear) from the top for many reasons but it suffices to say that the hips moving forward slows the rate of rotation of the shoulders and allows them to return to impact closer to square. In the very best players there is a chain of events that takes place in the downswing...the hips move FORWARD while opening to start and at that point the shoulders are moving slowly...during the middle of the downswing in the best players the hips actually slow down and the shoulders "take off". Again...this is the sequencing that takes place in the "best" players and is how the most clubhead speed and straightest plane lines are achieved. Consider this -at the top the differential b/w hip and shoulder turn is approx. 45 degrees...while at impact with the hips appox. 30 degrees open (and shoulders fairly square) the differential has actually closed to only 30 degrees. This is proof that the shoulders do "cover" more ground b/w the top and impact (than the hips) but as long as the hips move enough forward...the sequencing is intact...and the shoulders will not be too open at impact.

Dave

[Kenz]

According to Jim Hardy, the Titleist Performance Institute has proven that at impact, the shoulders of touring pros come within 2-10 degrees of catching up to the hips. It doesn't appear to be the case if you look at photos of impact positions because the left arm is stretched across the chest. If you go by more of where the center of the chest is pointing, you can see that the shoulders are more open than you think.

[soloredd]

I love Shawn Clement, I use his DVD for whenever I start feeling myself get in a bind.

The one thing I do not like is the use of his lower body. He moves his legs so damn much. You compare that to a swing by someone like Tiger and it looks ridiculous. His extension of the right leg used to throw me off so much.

[Jcp907]

I am learning things differently from what thevideo on the clear the hips drill is teaching. I am trying to drop my hands, before my hips begin moving. Perhaps I am learning this way as an exaggeration so that I can learn the proper sequence. It's common that what I feel, and what I do, are two different things. I think that's common in most golfers. I am also fighting open shoulders at impact, and it has taken a lot of hours to begin to see progress.

I am quoting from the Zach Johnson article in March of 2010 of Golf Magazine:
"Finish your backswing, then drop your hands down towards the ball. Don't worry about opening up your hips. Trust me-they will do it on their own. This "arms-first-hips-second" sequence results in everything moving through the impact at the same time. That's what you call a "synched-up" downswing."

Zach Johnson's instructor is Mike Bender, who runs the facility where I am taking lessons. When I am succesful at doing this, the shoulders feel more square at impact. I certainly won't dispute what Kenz is stating with regards to the shoulders being open, but the shoulders are a LOT more closed than when I hit my slice or pull. Additionally, when I am synched up the ball flight is beautiful. It starts off to the right, and returns to the target line without crossing it.

[J_Bone]

I am learning things differently from what thevideo on the clear the hips drill is teaching. I am trying to drop my hands, before my hips begin moving. Perhaps I am learning this way as an exaggeration so that I can learn the proper sequence. It's common that what I feel, and what I do, are two different things. I think that's common in most golfers. I am also fighting open shoulders at impact, and it has taken a lot of hours to begin to see progress.

This is something I'm working on at the moment too. When I start with my hips, they get to far ahead of my shoulders and my chest fly's open as well. But if I start with my arms then my hips, I make good contact. For me, it's timing the hip turn and that is when my right elbow drops into my right side.

[saevel25]

I belive in Zack Johnsons Method. I use to think about moving my hips before i start my downswing, but all that caused me to do was shift them lateraly. The thing i woudl concentrate more on is weight shift. You start with your weight on the balls of your feet, they go to your right foot on the backswing to the left heel at the finish. If my hips move laterally, i wont get there, my weight will be on my left middle or left toes.

A great tip was on the golf channel, stand up your bag, or a chair, stick your but on it. Take a slow swing, feel your left side leaving the chair as your right hip tucks inward and your back faces the target. Don't worry your shoulders will turn more than your hips. at impact you just want your right butt cheek to come off the chair as your left hip tucks in and your lower back faces away from the target. You don't want to slide your hips outward towards the target.

To me the shoulders will take care of themselves if you maintain your spine angle and do not slide your hips. Its all in the weight shift

[anthony]

I've came to the conclusion that thinking about your swing while you swing is horrible. Honestly. I played 3 times this year and haven't kept score yet or had 1 swing thought. Well, almost none.

On the first few holes on the first day out I was doing my typical over examined swings. A few good shots, a few tops and a fat shot or 2. No consistency at all. I was on the 4th hole and I skulled a chip, than another and another. I got super frustrated. I was probably 30-40 yards away from my bag with 4 or 5 balls that I skulled. With no pressure of hitting the green or swing thoughts I pitched the balls back over to my bag. I hit every shot super crisp. That's when it clicked for me. Swing thoughts suck. Set up properly and swing the club. Period. Thinking about my shoulders and turning my hips first and everything else prevented me from hitting a shot. Obviously you need to learn the proper way to swing a club, but thinking about every aspect of your swing while your swinging will prevent you from ever making a fluid swing. In my opinion anyways.

Since then I've been striking the ball better than I ever have in my life. I just set up right and then set it on auto pilot for the swing. No thoughts, all feel.

[JackLee]

My lower body movements are always perfect because they are subconscious. I use lead shoulder control from "The Golf Swing and Its Master Key Explained". You can do that, or you can try to consciously sequence and continue to be frustrated.

[Jcp907]

I've came to the conclusion that thinking about your swing while you swing is horrible. Honestly. I played 3 times this year and haven't kept score yet or had 1 swing thought. Well, almost none.

My lower body movements are always perfect because they are subconscious. I use lead shoulder control from "The Golf Swing and Its Master Key Explained". You can do that, or you can try to consciously sequence and continue to be frustrated.

The only reason that I have concentrated on sequence is because I have a flaw that is inconsistent and it will be corrected by using the proper sequence, according to my instructor. Further, I have demonstrated to myself that when the sequence is correct, the ball starts right, and draws towards the target. I do this on the practice tee, not on course, and I am making huge progress. No idea what the end result will be, in terms of score, because it's not all come together yet.

It can be frustrating at time, but I am betting that it's much less frustratring than continuing down the path I was headed, without working on improving the swing.

[damnitdave]

for i've been on working on my knee action, i tend to move my hips laterally and straighten the knee prematurely....... i use the stack and tilt swing so for me i move my left knee laterally which gets weight on the front foot, and slightly opens up my hips at impact without my shoulders spinning out of control