Whatta Bunch Of Crap!

[Baynative]

Penalizing Jonathon Byrd two strokes for improving his stance in a bunker by taking a practice swing too far from the ball is as low class a move as I can remember.

The time to do something about meaningless rulings that do nothing more than harm a player or maybe cost him his card is long overdue. In this case the penalty after the fact cost Byrd to drop from a tie for third to a multi way tie for fifth, meaning BIG BUX and undoubtedly effecting his play as well since the bone head officials stopped by to tell him they were reviewing tapes of his play while he was still finishing the back nine.

[allin]

Penalizing Jonathon Byrd two strokes for improving his stance in a bunker by taking a practice swing too far from the ball is as low class a move as I can remember.

I couldn't agree more. There should be a reasonable expectation that a competitor is benefiting, or intended to benefit from an action. Rules should reflect this. To often rules in golf fail this expectation. Some rules like OB, while justifiable should be changed so that common sense prevails. Fairness and pace of play would be enhanced. FWTW OB should be treated like a water hazard.

[ragontona]

I didn't watch, but read about it. Apparently, the "violation" was reported to the rules officials by the tv commentators?

I hate that.

[Baynative]

Apparently, the "violation" was reported to the rules officials by the tv commentators?

The commentators began talking about it before the officials were shown to be involved, so you could be right.

The alleged infraction occurred when Byrd was playing from a bunker on 9 and still in contention. Then the officials interrupted his play on 11 to tell him they were reviewing a possible penalty and he bogeyed that hole. He struggled back to - 12 with birdies on 17 & 18 and then was penalized two strokes after completion. The crappiest part was the suppossed violation: he waggled and settled his feet into the sand and took a couple of practice swings, then as he addressed the ball he inched closer to play the shot - maybe 1/2 a foot length. For this they declared a penalty for improving his stance. Justplain bush league all the way. To make matters worse, in my opinion, this is the second time I know of the ESPN hasinterjected themselves into a tournament by forcing an official decision. The last time it was the DQ of Michelle Wie. The slobs at ESPN should stick to glorifying hoop thugs and football rappers and stay the hell out of golf as far as I'm concerned! I can't wait for the golf channel to take over some tournaments next year.

[LarryK]

this is the second time I know of the ESPN hasinterjected themselves into a tournament by forcing an official decision. The last time it was the DQ of Michelle Wie.

What makes you think GC commentators won't speculate about rules violations? And who is to say they "interject" themselves? It may be as equally true that rules officials just happen to monitor network TV feeds on their own initiative.

My beef is with the rank and file viewer who jumps on the internet to act as an amatuer ad hoc rules official. Actually, my beef is not so much with the couch potato snitch as it is with a "professional" sport that empowers and encourages the rabid voice of the fan by conducting rules reviews based upon it.

[Baynative]

What makes you think GC commentators won't speculate about rules violations? And who is to say they "interject" themselves?

I think (or at least, I hope) they will be more professional because most of them are former tour pros themselves. ESPN has talking heads that do what ever sport shows up on their calendar. Gymnastics today, soccer tommorow ...it shows in their shallow insight and canned comments.

My bigger gripe, however, was with the ridiculous call itself. Byrd's actions in the bunker no way portrayed the intention of the rule in my opinion. Saying he improved his stance by adjusting his foot position as he prepared to play the shot to gain an advantage is ludicrous.

[iacas]

I think (or at least, I hope) they will be more professional because most of them are former tour pros themselves. ESPN has talking heads that do what ever sport shows up on their calendar. Gymnastics today, soccer tommorow ...it shows in their shallow insight and canned comments.

ESPN has as many former Tour players as TGC, as well as folks like Hank Haney.

I haven't seen actual video of the ruling. Seems like a bad ruling, but I may not be hearing everything or thinking of everything. Improving his stance doesn't seem like the likely ruling here.

[iacas]

I haven't seen actual video of the ruling, but if he took practice swings without hitting sand at all, then, moved closer to his ball only, it seems like a bad ruling to me. But I may not be hearing everything.

Having reviewed the discussion (not just here, but in every news outlet I could find in 10 minutes), it seems Byrd was penalized for breaking rule 13-4, which talks about testing the conditions of the hazard prior to taking his stance.

I'd have penalized him too if I were him. But, I wouldn't have told him what the answer was until I knew for sure, or before he signed his card, whichever came first. The simple fact of the matter is that you cannot test the conditions of a bunker away from where you take your stance. I read in places where just about his entire footprint was visible behind his new stance - well more than six inches. The simple fact of the matter is that you can't do that. Take your practice swings OVER the ball or outside the bunker - you see pros doing that all the time. Now you know why. Tough lesson for Byrd to learn, but an important one. He's got a million dollars in earnings - he's not in danger of losing his card over this ruling at all. Heck, he wouldn't have lost his card if he'd not played the Canadian Open or any events the rest of the year.

[tartanjack]

To make matters worse, in my opinion, this is the second time I know of the ESPN hasinterjected themselves into a tournament by forcing an official decision. The last time it was the DQ of Michelle Wie. The slobs at ESPN should stick to glorifying hoop thugs and football rappers and stay the hell out of golf as far as I'm concerned!

As miserable as the ESPN guys are, they weren't the ones to blow the whistle on Michelle Wie. That was Michael Bamberger of Sports Illustrated. That dunderhead waited until after she'd signed her card to bring it up to the rules officials. In some ways Byrd was lucky they called it on him before signing the card. Multiple tie for fifth is better than a DQ.

[Baynative]

As miserable as the ESPN guys are, they weren't the ones to blow the whistle on Michelle Wie. That was Michael Bamberger of Sports Illustrated.

You're right. I stand corrected -thanks. I guess I let my anger over this latest incident cloud my memory.

I think I heard of an incident a couple of years back when a TV viewer called in an infraction he noticed and got someone disqualified. I don't like this junk. Golf is a sport of honor and professionals as well as devoted recreational players will uphold the rules and traditions on their own. It should not become an interactive media exercise.

[Baynative]

I've replayed his violation several times. If that is a violation of the intended rule so is walking on the sand or wiggling your feet to secure a solid stance. This was clearly a very bad call.

[jamesduncan]

hmm id disagree

if he indeed took a full stance in the bunker then re addressed the ball and took another new stance claser to it, he deff was testing the area in the bunker.

like eric said, you either take your practice swings entirely out of the hazard or be very delibarate about taking your stance and practice swings over the ball.

sounds like the proper ruling.

maybe the way of informing him wasnt ideal, but that shouldnt distract from the way in which the ruling in question was interpeted.

[cmarkmyers]

Even on some of The Golf Channels lessons for newbies I have seen Tina Mickelson talk about taking your practice swings out of the bunker. So, it sounds like a clear violation to me.

Also, I saw the ESPN guys mention it but I didn't see them do anything or indicate anywhere that they interjected themselves. As far as I know the rules officials could have been reviewing it on their own or someone else entirely may have brought it up to them. If it was ESPN then shitty as that may be it is still better than what that douche bag from SI did, which was bring it up after it was too late. I could go on and on about that self-serving jerk but maybe another time.

[Thrash13]

It was a clear rules violation, and Jonathan Byrd should have known about it. He probably just got caught up in the moment though.

However, the rule is still a silly one. I don't believe taking a practice swing in the bunker would help anything, but that's just my take. My Thrash Talk this week actually has to do with a few rules I would have modified or thrown out the window completely. This is one that needs a little common sense added to it, but definitely not scrapped totally.

[jamesduncan]

far from silly, in my opinion anyways.

at my home course, the bunkers are far from consistent and one of the keys to being a good bunker player there is being able to "read" the sand.

being able to dig in your feet at various points around the ball is one way of seeing if there are any diviations in consistency throughout the bunker that a player can try.

this is a good rule that, while not perfect, keeps "tabs" on a player if they try to improve or read conditions from a less than perfect lie.

This goes hand in hand with someone taking multiple practice swings over their ball when in a fescue-like type lie, in order to try and clear away a better path for their club to hit the ball cleanly.

[caveman]

Sorry for my ignorance but, is all this to say that a player who has landed in a bunker is not able, as he is in a fairway, to change his mind regarding the decision to hit a ball. I kinda get the "feeling out the territory" concept, but it almost seems that if in your practice swing above the ball, you get something in your eye, you'd just have to hit it, or something like that, because if you move, you could be in violation.

To me it's silly. Anywhere else on the course you can change your mind, get a different club, re-address and hit it.

I don't know...Maybe pick it up, throw it out on the grass and hope noone saw ...especially SI and ESPN.

Caveman

[jamesduncan]

where has anyone said you cant change clubs or even leave the bunker?

even if you change clubs or approaches, when you re enter and re address the ball, your stance will be from basically the same spot in the bunker.

the reason why you dont really get an advantage from walking in and out of the bunker is that you arent digging into the surface as much as you are allowed to when taking a proper stance, hence the idea that taking multiple stances away from the ball would be a violation.

this really isnt that hard to see i hope right? (bunker play 101)

[caveman]

I guess my thought came from one of the comments that said (basically) that the violation came from the stance readjusting by possibly more than half a footprint...however, someone did mention the actual ruling and a better explanation. Still, I would have to say it concerns me that there is a lot of potential variation as to the reason someone might be backfrom the ball during a practice swing. Did someone say he took practice swings in the bunker, away from his ball, or was he just inches off?

Caveman