Progressing off the tee

[mhenrickson]

Holy crap did this thread take a turn! All I was looking for was practice tips, or maybe on the course tips for ways to work my way up the club ladder and hopefully back to the driver. Soon it becomes an analysis of my swing, critique of my teacher, and discussion on how to teach beginners the golf swing.

I don't really care that this is the direction things are headed. After all, that's what a message board is for. I just find it interesting is all.

[Shanks A Million]

You'd think. But too many people hear a whole lot of bullcrap fundamentals that make the barrier to entry too high. People quit because they spend all their time working on "fundamentals" and then they can't even hit the ball.

So, does stack and tilt prefer a specific grip, stance, setup, posture, etc? I mean, surely you don't just tell students to grab on to a club, stand any way and swing, right? What if your student is slouched over, or has a really bad grip? I guess I don't understand what you mean is all.

You don't want to "get behind the ball" (and certainly not to hit a draw). The average golfer's low point is well behind the ball and he cuts across it.

If I've read it correctly, Stack and Tilt favors turning

over the ball, as opposed to turning behind it, something I've generally agreed with. With a traditional swing though, doesn't the player attempt to "turn behind the ball", or are you talking about something else?

Holy crap did this thread take a turn! All I was looking for was practice tips, or maybe on the course tips for ways to work my way up the club ladder and hopefully back to the driver. Soon it becomes an analysis of my swing, critique of my teacher, and discussion on how to teach beginners the golf swing.

It's not an attack or even a criticism, it's a discussion. We don't dislike you, or feel any ill feelings toward you, on the contrary, we're trying to help you progress. At your level right now, learning the proper swing sequence is highly important. I was once a 30 handicap too, as were all of us I assume. You wanted to know how or why you couldn't hit driver. I wouldn't possibly feel right in telling you that you should just go to the range and hit drivers all day, and it will magically fix itself.

The truth is that building a solid, repeatable, and fundamentally sound swing is the most important thing you can do to get better at the game. I know I learned that lesson the hard way, after years of flailing at the ball, and trying to find the club that would keep it in play. No such club exists of course, but I sure thought it did. Once I started to listen to those who had been there, and learn the proper fundamentals, every club seemed like the magic club. That's how it works. My driver is a work of art in my eyes, I stand over it and know I can pelt it out there long and straight... And what's even more amazing, I still have a ways to go. I know it will only get better.

[iacas]

So, does stack and tilt prefer a specific grip, stance, setup, posture, etc?

S&T; is okay with a range of grips, stances, etc.

Paul Azinger won majors and played in Ryder Cups with a strong grip. Others have incredibly weak grips. Stances too. Almost nobody on the PGA Tour aims at the target - they all curve the ball so they don't aim at it. So something as simple as alignment is different, too. In other words, so long as your grip, stance, etc. is within a range, you're fine. If it's out of range or causing a problem, we might tweak it a little bit - but it's not a fundamental. How can it be a fundamental if pros have such a wide spectrum of grips (postures, alignments, etc.)? It's not.

If I've read it correctly, Stack and Tilt favors turning

To make it simple yes. On the backswing your shoulders and hips turn in a circle. Both stay centered.

[saevel25]

Then how is this different from a classic swing.. Whats the different between turning over the ball and turning behind it?

Because the pro i go to is getting me as the turn would be said, trap the ball, and that really does keeping connecting and rotating through the ball.

[iacas]

Then how is this different from a classic swing..

Not to be confrontational (okay, maybe to be), but DERRR, it IS a "classic" swing.

The MODERN golf swing (or rather, MODERN GOLF INSTRUCTION) is the problem. A guy in the pro shop at a course today asked someone whether he wanted to learn a "traditional" golf swing or that "new Stack and Tilt" swing. My argument is that Stack and Tilt is FAR MORE "TRADITIONAL" than the "modern" golf swing. I'm going to make another post about this.

Whats the different between turning over the ball and turning behind it?

The difference is just what you said - keeping your upper center (your shoulder turn) centered versus letting it drift back to the right.

Because the pro i go to is getting me as the turn would be said, trap the ball, and that really does keeping connecting and rotating through the ball.

I have no idea what that means. He's "getting [you] as the turn would be said?"

[saevel25]

Just forget about that last line, friday night at 12pm, long week, i am big groggy. sorry about that, i don't check sentences sometimes.

Is there any good references of tour players who use the modern swing versus stack and tilt?

[Shanks A Million]

S&T; is okay with a range of grips, stances, etc.

Oh, OK, that's cool. Makes sense. Pavin, weak grip, Johnson, strong... Both won one major, multiple PGA tour events, both are short hitters, both with great short games, but Pavin was a shotmaker, Johnson was a ballstriker.