handicap index and course ratings

[dmc]

I'm wondering if others have noticed a difference in handicap index's from one coarse to another. I joined a club back in 2006 that was very difficult, lots of water hazard's, elevated greens, ect. Then I and about 8 others went to another local club and all of our handicap's dropped 4-6 strokes. The slope ratings are similar, but the other coarse, a Tom Fazio layout was just easier. Now we are back at the original club and all of our handicaps have risen.

This makes us very tough in handicap events, but I though slope ratings were suppose to take care of this. Ive gone from a 2.4 index to 6.4, and feel that I am playing just as well. The only difference is if you make a mistake at our current club, a PB Dye layout, you bring double into play. There are many forced water carries and placement is key.

With all the talk of sandbagging, sometimes I wonder if the ratings are correct. Both coarses had ratings in the 130's and play around 6500 from the mens tees. I don't play the champ tees.

[shades9323]

It is course, not coarse. One coarse I would think is a typo, but your post is filled with them.

[Lefty-Golfer]

the score rating is what dertermines the difficulty of the coarse. if you go on the GHIN site there is long boring disertation on it.

bottom line is the rating is how tough the course is, the slope is the measure between a scratch golfer and an 18 on that same course.

Example a course that plays 74.5 131 is rated 3 strokes harder then a course that plays 71.5 131...

[Lefty-Golfer]

  shades9323 said:

It is course, not coarse. One coarse I would think is a typo, but your post is filled with them.

LOL I just realized i have one coarse...but 3 other courses!!! i qualify for typo!! that being said my spelling blows and when combined with below average typing, well it just ain't good!!

[double_j]

Definitely. I often question the consistency of course ratings from place to place.

That said, remember that course difficulty is usually based just as much on personal preference as on the actual course design. For example, show me the same hole twice where one is a dogleg right and the other is a mirror image dogleg left and I guarantee that my average score will be better on the one that turns right (my favorite tee shot is a gentle draw against the dogleg).

Also, forced carries or sheer length don't bother me much. But tricky greens? Forget about it, I'll shoot a million.

[BallStriker]

You have to realize that the GHIN system is not a perfect science....also, some courses suit some players' games better than others......bottom line is that handicaps between two evenly skilled players can vary based on the different courses that are played by each.

[Kieran123]

Pete Dye + elevated greens = nightmare

Played a course in the Dominican Republic with a crappy front nine that was sorta easy, but Pete Dye had just re designed the back 9...completely different game....the back 9 was TOUGH.

[dmc]

  shades9323 said:

It is course, not coarse. One coarse I would think is a typo, but your post is filled with them.

Guilty, I can't spell.

[dmc]

  BallStriker said:

You have to realize that the GHIN system is not a perfect science....also, some courses suit some players' games better than others......bottom line is that handicaps between two evenly skilled players can vary based on the different courses that are played by each.

I am just suprized that with 8-10 players our average handicap's have swung 4 strokes or more. It's very noticable. We have all gone the same way.

[kfowler]

  dmc said:

I'm wondering if others have noticed a difference in handicap index's from one coarse to another.

Absolutely. We started playing a course regularly this year that according to rating and slope, is easier than another course I play regularly. The course has a lot of rolling hills and small greens with lots of undulation. This really does not fit my game well. I actually tend to do better HCP wise on tougher course. I think a lot has to do with my ability to keep the ball in play.

[James_Black]

My new course is rated easier than my old one.

I've been shooting higher at this one though, the greens are much faster and the fairways narrower.

[Paradox]

I guess I'm not seeing what the big mystery is...tougher course = higher handicap.

[double_j]

  Paradox said:

I guess I'm not seeing what the big mystery is...tougher course = higher handicap.

That's not really true. If the course rating system were perfect, the tougher course would allow more strokes over par than an easier one for a given handicap, all else equal.

What doesn't make it work perfectly is the fact that one course rated 72/132 could actually play much harder than another course also rated 72/132 due to a number of different factors.

[Paradox]

but by the numbers..the course isn't tougher. That was my point. He said they had "similiar ratings" not.."the same ratings".

He also said his home course was tougher and his handicap went up after he came back from playing an easier course. That seems like it pretty much settles the argument. Tougher course, higher handicap.

[double_j]

But even for similarly (not identical) rated courses, you'd rarely expect to see a 4 point hdcp swing. I guess it depends on the OP's definition of similar (e.g., 72/132 is definitely not similar to 75/135)

[sacm3bill]

  Paradox said:

but by the numbers..the course isn't tougher. That was my point. He said they had "similiar ratings" not.."the same ratings".

No. Tougher course does not equal higher handicap. Tougher course equals higher score for a given handicap, but the OP's point is that once you factor in rating and slope your differentials should be about the same wherever you go. (That is correct in principle, but as people have pointed out lots of other things factor in.)

[kfowler]

  sacm3bill said:

No. Tougher course does not equal higher handicap. Tougher course equals higher score for a given handicap, but the OP's point is that once you factor in rating and slope your differentials should be about the same wherever you go. (That is correct in principle, but as people have pointed out lots of other things factor in.)

Exactly. Idea of rating and slope is to make everything equal.

[B-Con]

What detailed stats do you keep per hole in a round? If you can compare a couple typical rounds from both courses, where did you gain extra strokes? Are you putting more, hitting fewer GIRs, landing in more bunkers, losing more balls in the water/trees, or whatnot? Could be a few minor tweaks in one course plays against your natural strengths.

Also, I don't know how often courses update their ratings. Could be some gradual lengthening of holes and changing the rough around the green, etc, made the course a little harder but wasn't enough to get the course re-rated. Does anyone with knowledge of the course rating process? I'm actually curious about this as a stand-alone issue.