Ufc 118

[Brendon]

Here's the results.

Frankie Edgar (W) vs. BJ Penn (L) (2)
Randy Couture (W) vs. James Toney (L)

[TN94z]

I haven't seen the fights yet so I can't comment on how they went down. From what I heard, BJ didn't really put up much of a fight. I think he is tired of fighting. He doesn't seem like he comes in with the same fire that he used to. It may be time for him just to call it quits. He could be the best again if he wanted to, but it doesn't seem like he wants it as much. He will still be known as one of the best ever


As far as the other fight, I think everyone pretty much saw this coming. It was a joke of a fight.

[Ben]

I only saw the highlights of Toney Couture. I was happy to see him get chocked out so easily. I heard he was talking a bunch of trash. That's usually the case in MMA, he who talks the most trash, loses.

[TN94z]

I just don't understand how choking out James Toney warranted Couture receiving his black belt....They give those things out like candy in the UFC. I would be willing to bet that half the black belts in the UFC aren't at the level that true BJJ practicioners consider black belts.

[Brendon]

I haven't seen the fights yet so I can't comment on how they went down. From what I heard, BJ didn't really put up much of a fight. I think he is tired of fighting. He doesn't seem like he comes in with the same fire that he used to. It may be time for him just to call it quits. He could be the best again if he wanted to, but it doesn't seem like he wants it as much. He will still be known as one of the best ever

And Penn is very over-rated.

[TN94z]

And Penn is very over-rated.

Most haters think so....Just as MANY, MANY fighers are over rated.

[alomar123]

I just don't understand how choking out James Toney warranted Couture receiving his black belt....They give those things out like candy in the UFC. I would be willing to bet that half the black belts in the UFC aren't at the level that true BJJ practicioners consider black belts.

It was a Black belt for catch wrestling, not bjj.

Sweet set of fights, toney was pathetic. My boy maynard= Next champ.

[Red_on_the_head]

I would have loved to see "Bones" slap the shit out of Toney vs Couture choking him out.

From what I heard was that Penn could never be on the offensive because Edgar was just too fast for him.

[TN94z]

It was a Black belt for catch wrestling, not bjj.

That makes more sense. A friend told me about it. They are still handed out too easily in the UFC.

[yenner]

That makes more sense. A friend told me about it. They are still handed out too easily in the UFC.

Have you ever fought on a professional or semi-professional level?

FYI, not angry or disputing your claim, just curious.

[TN94z]

Have you ever fought on a professional or semi-professional level?

Nope and that doesn't hold any relevance to my argument. I have been told by many, many of my BJJ teachers (black belts included), people that do fight professionally, read articles by well known MMA fighters and trainers, etc...that have the same claims. I mean I have been watching the UFC since I was 16. I have seen fighters come and go. I have seen fighters come in with maybe a blue belt and then within 6 months time they seem to be getting their black belts. I have never fought professionally, but I have trained in boxing, tae-kwon-do, muay thai, and BJJ, so I know what it takes to get to these levels. There is a reason that it takes around 5 years(on a good pace-10 years is not unheard of) to receive your black belt in BJJ. Look at BJ for instance...he did it in what 3 years? Look at how big of a deal is made about that. It is because it is almost unheard of for a person to rocket up the belt rankings so quickly. BJJ is not an art that you master over 2 years time. It just doesn't happen. When you do receive your black belt, you are tested against black belts that don't take it easy on you. This is why when you see a "real" black belt like Maia, Leites, etc...on the ground against a so-called black belt in the UFC, the skill level is so far apart it's noticeable to the untrained eye. I'm not saying that every black belt in the UFC is fake, that would be ridiculous. But I am saying that many of the belts are handed out to people that are not truly on a black belt level. I mean it takes much more than being able to apply a rear naked choke and arm bar to be considered a black belt. This has been argued for a long time in the MMA community. I realize that these guys train day in and day out....but you still can't get to that level as quickly as many of these guys do. And another thing. I wasn't disputing the fact that Randy doesn't deserve a black belt because he held Jacarre to a draw in a grappling match. I was disputing the fact that Randy didn't deserve to receive it because of the Toney fight.

[newtogolf]

The time it takes to get your black belt in BJJ is also dependant on the school. Schools that mass produce MMA fighters seem quicker to give out belts than traditional BJJ schools.

[newtogolf]

Penn looked indifferent the entire time, like he had someplace he'd rather be. He showed no emotion, at first I thought it was fighters focus, but after the match started it was pretty obvious this wasn't the same guy that destroyed Diego Sanchez.

I read that he didn't train very hard for the fight, and it showed in how gassed he was at the end. Edgar basically fought the same fight he did the first time, using his speed to get in and out quick, only this time he added some first round take downs that very few fighters were able to achieve agaisnt BJ.

I think Edgar's fighting style is a problem for BJ. BJ likes to go agaisnt fighters that fight to win by KO or sub, not win on points. GSP and Edgar are quite happy to win on points using their superior skills and they both have wins against BJ.

Maynard didn't look as good as Florian looked bad so I'm not all that excited about a Maynard - Edgar matchup.

[TN94z]

The time it takes to get your black belt in BJJ is also dependant on the school. Schools that mass produce MMA fighters seem quicker to give out belts than traditional BJJ schools.

This is exactly my point. There are certain camps or schools that are known for this.

Penn looked indifferent the entire time, like he had someplace he'd rather be. He showed no emotion, at first I thought it was fighters focus, but after the match started it was pretty obvious this wasn't the same guy that destroyed Diego Sanchez.

Motivation seems to be something that Penn has been lacking for a few years. He can destroy guys when he trains but he relies very heavily on his natural ability. That would win fights back in the day, but now with the new breed of fighters. It seems to be mostly when he trains at home too. He went to Cali for most of the fights that he dominates. BJ shouldn't have a problem beating Edgar by any means. Cutting the ring off would kill quite a bit of Edgar's fight. Edgar got easy takedowns on BJ in their first fight. This is against a guy that was known as having some of the best TDD in all of MMA. That told me that he was not the same. Edgar isn't that great of a wrestler.

All of this is coming from a huge BJ Penn fan too! As far as Maynard, he will walk through Edgar no problems. I think Edgar and Maynard are both short lived title holders. IMO, Pearson or Sotiropolous (SP?) will be the next big champ, assuming that BJ doesn't find some motivation somewhere. Kenny doesn't have what it takes to win the big fights. I think that Maynard is over rated.

[newtogolf]

As far as Maynard, he will walk through Edgar no problems. I think Edgar and Maynard are both short lived title holders. IMO, Pearson or Sotiropolous (SP?) will be the next big champ, assuming that BJ doesn't find some motivation somewhere. Kenny doesn't have what it takes to win the big fights. I think that Maynard is over rated.

It didn't look like BJ was all that interested in fighting again in his post fight interview. I realize he'd just lost again, but he seems to have lost his desire to fight. There was also some issue between him and Dana White which might be causing some of his problems.

Maynard is very over rated. He and many of the collegiate wrestlers in the UFC would not have the same level of success if scoring and refs used the PRIDE approach. I see alot of wrestlers gain control on the mat, but do little to improve position or end the fight which each ref seems to handle differently. Some stand them up too quick, others allow it for the entire round. If you're a wrestler and get draw the right ref, you can get an easy win. I think Sotiropolous has a good shot, he's got the best BJJ in the division, and he isn't bad at stand up either.

[TN94z]

It didn't look like BJ was all that interested in fighting again in his post fight interview. I realize he'd just lost again, but he seems to have lost his desire to fight. There was also some issue between him and Dana White which might be causing some of his problems.

Nothing to argue there! I agree with everything you said.

[yenner]

Nope and that doesn't hold any relevance to my argument.

FYI,

:)

I agree to an extent. I don't know enough about the belts to make a fair judgement call though and I'll freely admit that. I am curretnly training with a former fighter (who may soon again become an active fighter) so I'm gonna ask him about this. Again, it's just b/c I'm curious and always looking to broaden my knowledge base. :) PS ~ I'm glad Penn lost and can't wait for the day Silva loses. :)

[newtogolf]

:)

The old school Gracies were supposedly the toughest and slowest to promote their students to black belt. The younger Gracies seem more generous handing out black belts. Some also differentiate between using a Gi and without, so there are a number of variables.

Silva almost lost to Sonnen and supposedly they are giving him a rematch.