Shorter clubs, steeper plane?

[MikeLowry5]

Just a curious thought that I have wondered about for a bit now. Wouldn't a shorter club allow for someone to swing the club on a steeper plane, i.e. more out to in rather than in to out?

[$2 Nassau]

probably a steeper plane but that doesn't mean it has to be over the top. you can still come from the inside with a steeper plane/short club. It's just a driver swing will look more flat than say a wedge swing.

[sean_miller]

Just a curious thought that I have wondered about for a bit now. Wouldn't a shorter club allow for someone to swing the club on a steeper plane, i.e. more out to in rather than in to out?

You might be right. Perhaps a more upright swing would give you more flexibility to change the club path during the swing. That could be why the golf magazines are always trying to get people to flatten out their swing - to add consistency.

[Shanks A Million]

Just a curious thought that I have wondered about for a bit now. Wouldn't a shorter club allow for someone to swing the club on a steeper plane, i.e. more out to in rather than in to out?

Where did you get the idea that these are at all related? Steep and outside in are different concepts. The plane you swing a club on is related to its length because our height doesn't change. Therefore, we must swing a shorter club on a steeper plane. Inside out and outside in are related to a different axis of the plane.

[MikeLowry5]

Where did you get the idea that these are at all related? Steep and outside in are different concepts. The plane you swing a club on is related to its length because our height doesn't change. Therefore, we must swing a shorter club on a steeper plane. Inside out and outside in are related to a different axis of the plane.

I'll use an extreme example to help. If I have a 10' pole and try to hit a ball on the ground lined up between my middle and my front foot I am going to have a hard time swinging the pole "back down the line". Now if I have a 6" stick it would be much easier to swing that back down the line. Conversely the plane of the swing with both would be different. The shorter stick would allow for a much steeper plane and the 10' pole would require a flatter swing that goes around my body.

Make sense?

[Fourputt]

It seems to me that you are referring to a steeper angle of attack rather than a different plane. The shorter club certainly promotes a smaller arc. This is one reason why it's easier to hit the ball out of a deep lie with a wedge than it is with a 5I... the steeper angle allows the club to hit the ball with less interference from the grass or weeds. This effect can be increased even more by playing the ball farther back in your stance, but that still doesn't necessarily mean that you are swinging on a different plane than you usually do.

[Zeph]

The swing plane is determined by your inclination to the ground, which in turn is determined by the length of the club.



The angle you come down at is pretty close to the one you set up with, so with a shorter club, the plane will be steeper. From the face on view, there is no difference. Your arms dictate that angle, and your arms are equally long when hitting a driver as a wedge.

You can of course swing on a different plane than your inclination to the ground, but that would mean you lose the connection between your arms and your upper body, so you'll have to compensate coming down by dropping the club into "the slot", like Tiger's been doing all the time. If you swing on the plane of your inclination, the hands are already in the slot, there is no need to drop them. But that is not what this thread is about, just a little sidenote on the topic at hand.

[Shanks A Million]

I'll use an extreme example to help. If I have a 10' pole and try to hit a ball on the ground lined up between my middle and my front foot I am going to have a hard time swinging the pole "back down the line". Now if I have a 6" stick it would be much easier to swing that back down the line. Conversely the plane of the swing with both would be different. The shorter stick would allow for a much steeper plane and the 10' pole would require a flatter swing that goes around my body.

Perhaps, but that still doesn't relate to inside out/outside in. You can still swing that 10 foot pole outside in, or that 6" stick inside out. It's easier to manipulate the 6" stick in

any way, and more loft means more energy being transferred to get the ball into the air, and less forward, so naturally, there's more forgiveness on a more lofted club. But to answer your question, a longer club will always need a flatter plane. If you draw a right triangle, and the vertical side is always the same length (your hands), and the tangent changes in length, the distance from the ball must change, as must the angle between the tangent and the vertical plane.

It seems to me that you are referring to a steeper angle of attack rather than a different plane. The shorter club certainly promotes a smaller arc. This is one reason why it's easier to hit the ball out of a deep lie with a wedge than it is with a 5I... the steeper angle allows the club to hit the ball with less interference from the grass or weeds. This effect can be increased even more by playing the ball farther back in your stance, but that still doesn't necessarily mean that you are swinging on a different plane than you usually do.

And that just tosses another wrench into the gears. That's a good point, some people may also associate angle of attack with steepness of the plane. They are not related, the angle of attack is related to a different axis.