Ball position when swinging harder

[bunkerputt]

When I swing hard, my hips open quickly and my shoulders are more open to the target line at impact than they are on normal tempo-ed swings. With the shoulders more open, the left shoulder is pulled off the target line some and the ball would hit out towards the toe if some sort of adjustment weren't made. In order for the club to center again, either the body has to move out and down towards the ball, the arms have to be pulled off the chest, or the ball position has to be moved closer to the player when swinging harder. How do players solve this problem? Do you just address the ball on the heel or let your arms fly away from your body, etc.?

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

When I swing hard, my hips open quickly and my shoulders are more open to the target line at impact than they are on normal tempo-ed swings. With the shoulders more open, the left shoulder is pulled off the target line some and the ball would hit out towards the toe if some sort of adjustment weren't made. In order for the club to center again, either the body has to move out and down towards the ball, the arms have to be pulled off the chest, or the ball position has to be moved closer to the player when swinging harder. How do players solve this problem? Do you just address the ball on the heel or let your arms fly away from your body, etc.?

Good players have the same impact position no matter how hard they swing.

-Andrew

[bunkerputt]

Good players have the same impact position no matter how hard they swing.

Ummm... I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Just compare impacts between drives on Par 5s and 100 yard approach shots. These aren't them, but I think they make the point.

Attachment 2583 Attachment 2582

[iacas]

Ummm... I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Just compare impacts between drives on Par 5s and 100 yard approach shots. These aren't them, but I think they make the point.

Those aren't really the images you'd want to use to prove or disprove your point. Ball position is different, clubs are different, and obviously the angle is different.

[andef]

As far as I know, ball position stays the same. It might change depending on what the player is attempting to do, like changing trajectory, but the only thing that differs when swinging harder is a higher clubhead speed.
As iacas just mentioned, the ball position in the two pictures differs because different clubs are used, therefore the angle of the swing (for the lack of a better term) changes.

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

Ummm... I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Just compare impacts between drives on Par 5s and 100 yard approach shots. These aren't them, but I think they make the point.

Sorry, I was unclear:

Good players have the same impact position for any given club and ball position no matter how hard they swing. Clubs are different lengths, and ball positions vary based on club selection and trajectory control. But when a pro wants to hit his driver 280 and find the fairway, vs. when a pro is trying to crank his driver 320, the impact positions should look the same. That's why they can crank it 320 when they feel they need to; their swing is so grooved that they can really get after it without losing control of the club. -Andrew

[bunkerputt]

So maybe my question should really be, with the shoulders open at impact, what changes are necessary to keep the ball square in the middle of the clubface?

[shortstop20]

Shoulders should be somewhere between square and 30 degrees open at impact. People have played excellent golf anywhere within that spectrum.

Professionals don't typically have their shoulders much more open with one club vs. another. In fact, in those pictures you posted, although it may not look like it, I would be willing to bet tiger's shoulder angle is close to the same for both shots. The right shoulder may work lower with the longer clubs, but that doesn't necessarily mean the shoulders are more open.

[bunkerputt]

I just can't imagine that's true.  What you are saying is that someone like Dustin Johnson or Hunter Mahan has the shoulders as open at impact with Sand Wedge as they do with Driver.  I've seen Hunter hit a wedge and his shoulders are definitely more square to the target line at impact than with driver.