Stock shafts vs. After-market shafts

[handlez42]

Originally Posted by WUTiger

Quote:

As others have said, the shaft is the engine of the club. Club designers make a stock shaft or two for each model of club, the shafts they figure a majority of golfers would want. Also, they usually suggest two or three upgrade shafts some people might want.

That said, people get on the launch monitor and may find the "made for" - or stock - shaft isn't the best one for them. Callaway, Titleist and others have several test shafts per fitting driver head you can see which one works best.

I play the Callaway HyperX Tour driver with the stock Fuji E360 R-flex shaft - midTorque and midKick. I tested out the regular HyperX with a low kick (high launch) shaft, and it ballooned the ball too much - excessive launch angle. By chance, the E360 tested out as the best shaft for me; I also have it on my XTour 3W.

If you're at the golf shop on a slow day, ask to see a launch monitor print-out sheet; there's about 10 swing factors they chart to get an idea of what sahft type and flex would be best for you. It'll give you an idea of what all is considered.

thats unfortunately something i havent taken advantage of. cost of a launch monitor print out from a local GolfETC was about 80 bucks (half off? really? in most cases thats more than the shaft cost alone) and wasn't too cheap at the time for me (just starting my second year of college)....

do you take your personal driver to the store/shop? or is it something where they tape a face of a driver in shop that they know the specs of?

[handlez42]

are the same tests done on fairway woods as well?

[handlez42]

but would this apply to the adila RIP on taylormades? i cant imagine a company wasting money on a shaft nobody really likes.

especially when the RIP doesnt seem to have a TP marking i dont think?

[RPMPIRE]

I would just check the shaft carefully. Most "made-for" shafts will have it printed on the shaft itself (Made for Titleist/Taylormade). Taylormade even goes further by putting their own design on some of those shafts. I noticed too that the RIP shaft doesn't have a Made For ____ stamp on either Taylormade or Titleist woods. Might be 100% authentic.

I'm really just stating what my local club pro said to me. It puzzled me too thinking "how could these companies sell half a shaft?!" There could be various business reasons too, but I don't think much of it. For me, it said Mitsubishi Kai'li on my driver and that was good enough for me. (Didn't wanna drop another $200+  to get an aftermarket shaft)

[handlez42]

Originally Posted by RPMPIRE

I would just check the shaft carefully. Most "made-for" shafts will have it printed on the shaft itself (Made for Titleist/Taylormade). Taylormade even goes further by putting their own design on some of those shafts. I noticed too that the RIP shaft doesn't have a Made For ____ stamp on either Taylormade or Titleist woods. Might be 100% authentic.

I'm really just stating what my local club pro said to me. It puzzled me too thinking "how could these companies sell half a shaft?!" There could be various business reasons too, but I don't think much of it. For me, it said Mitsubishi Kai'li on my driver and that was good enough for me. (Didn't wanna drop another $200+  to get an aftermarket shaft)

unfortunately tour edge is mirrored all over the top part near the shaft name. with fujikura as well. then the larger letters of the shaft (name) say "motore exotics tour". i can only assume the shaft is made for. i dont mind it but i just have this feeling im swinging something wrong for me

its a fuji motore exotics tour Rflex Mid-kick. plays kindve like a stiff only because of the mid kickpoint.

recently swung a cobra s3 white with the green eyes Aldila RIP shaft. (beautiful club and kills the taylormade line with looks) and it felt stable and slightly heavier ( i think 75g stiff). i figured it was probly a better made shaft in comparison to mine but unsure considering the whole "made for" deal

[x129]

When you are buying a Ferrai, how much of the cost is for  high quality parts and how much is for brand snobbery? If Titleist was ordering in quantities of 10k of a 300 dollar retail shaft, how much do you think it would cost them? I don't know but I am guessing it is closer to 100 than 300.  The shafts are different becasue Titleist wants a slightly different shaft for whatever reason.

Originally Posted by RPMPIRE

I was told by a local club pro that the "made-for" shafts aren't made to the exact specs as the same shaft sold separately.

For example, a Titleist 910 has a stock Mitsubishi Kai'li Shaft and retails for $399. The same shaft sold separately retails for over well over $300. So theoretically, the Titleist 910 head with the shaft should cost well over $600 retail. Only explanation why it retails cheaper is because they reduce the construction of the shaft to something more affordable.

Basically, instead of getting a Ferrari, you're getting a Ferrari body with a Honda engine.

[RPMPIRE]

Agreed. I'm sure they do get a wholesale price and probably more mark down if they buy higher quantities. I've still got my eyebrows raised when my club pro told me that, but it's not going to deter me from buying a stock shaft that comes with a driver or 3 wood.

I'm guessing one of the reasons to put "Made for" stuff on their shafts is to make sure no knock-offs get sold under the Titleist name.

Originally Posted by x129

When you are buying a Ferrai, how much of the cost is for  high quality parts and how much is for brand snobbery? If Titleist was ordering in quantities of 10k of a 300 dollar retail shaft, how much do you think it would cost them? I don't know but I am guessing it is closer to 100 than 300.  The shafts are different becasue Titleist wants a slightly different shaft for whatever reason.

[WUTiger]

Quote:

thats unfortunately something i havent taken advantage of. cost of a launch monitor print out from a local GolfETC was about 80 bucks...   ...do you take your personal driver to the store/shop?

If you pay for a fitting, it would cost some money. Hopefully, the shop rep would show you (for free) someone else's printout, or the computer screen before shots were hit. Pre-fitting, the launch monitor can be reset, at which time you would see the empty columns, labeled and waiting for test data.

When I got fitted, we used my old driver for baseline data on clubhead speed, launch angle and distance, and then got comparison data from the new drivers I tested.

Originally Posted by handlez42

are the same tests done on fairway woods as well?

Yes. It seems fitters lead off with the drivers, and use that data to suggest test fairway woods.

Originally Posted by x129

When you are buying a Ferrai, how much of the cost is for  high quality parts and how much is for brand snobbery? If Titleist was ordering in quantities of 10k of a 300 dollar retail shaft, how much do you think it would cost them? I don't know but I am guessing it is closer to 100 than 300. ...

If you are making shaft X, It would cost the shaft maker more money to make some some high-quality versions of the shaft X, and some so-so versions. Plus, it would come out sooner or later. The variable cost (parts and labor) to make a graphite shaft is fairly small, but the high-tech manufacturing set-up costs a lot. Like X29 said, if Titleist buys 10,000 stock shafts they get a price break.

The cost of the individual shaft costs out higher because of separate shipping and handling.

The color of the shaft can vary by club-making partnerships. For their HyperX Tour driver (2008) Callaway cut a deal with Fuji for the E360 shaft. The standard E360 which Fuji sold was red, with gray-silver toward the tip. For the HyperX Tour, however, the shaft was navy blue with green and silver lettering and accents to match the Callaway color themes.

NOTE: Clubsmiths I have talked to say every year a few batches of shafts get made here and there which are sub-standard. What follows is a sort of "quiet recall" as the shafts get replace club by club.

[shaft friek]

I had the same appreciation you have and it was confirmed by a tour pro. I got fitted with a Fujikura Speeder 757 X stiff and the difference between it and the stock fujikura was amazing. My new question is i got the DG S300 on my irons but they are stock.... But are the DG S300 Stock different from aftermarket DG S300? I hit them pretty well but some times the ball just goes straight to the right (not slice just stright out there).

[moparman426]

Originally Posted by shaft friek

are the DG S300 Stock different from aftermarket DG S300? I hit them pretty well but some times the ball just goes straight to the right (not slice just stright out there).

1.  No, they are exactly the same shaft, the DG S300, trimming, tipping, soft/hard stepping aside.

2.  Holy Necro Batman!

3.  As for the Speeder, maybe the subtle differences between the off the shelf shaft and the "made for" shaft suits your swing better. Dead horse is dead.

4.  **deleted comment**

[mvmac]

Wanted to share a few videos I ran across

[moparman426]

The first vid, using rolled up paper vs pvc tuning.  Just show us a cross section of the two shafts, more credible.  The second vid, did anyone else notice he wrenched on the handle to tighten it more (and abruptly at that) as he was removing the first shaft?  I use old fashioned shaft clamp in a full size vise and have never damaged a shaft like that, ever, nor I have ever heard any cracking or splintering effect.  It takes very little pressure to actually hold the shaft.   Just saying, take this stuff with a grain of salt, as with all non-laboratory testing that isn't in a controlled environment.  Lol.

Edited for grammar.

Also notice, they never showed the weights of the individual shafts they were comparing, 51g vs 86g?  Who knows, just too much to pick apart here.

[moparman426]

After watching these again this morning......in the second video, he also puts the first shaft in the clamp about 6 inches too far up, where the shaft is thinner.  Then he clamps the Adila (but he isn't mentioning any names in this video, lol) where it is supposed to be clamped.  Just look at where the hosel area of each shaft is, in comparison to the extractor.   Guy (in the video) is an idiot.   They can be sold as $300-400 packages because of volume alone.  They sell "after market" shafts for much more because we, as golfers, are willing to pay their high prices.

[LBlack14]

The 1st guy is full of sh*t. He's a used car salesman. The aftermarkets are made the same damn process, specs are different. He is absolutely so full of sh*t his eyes are brown. There are suttle differences in some. Ping uses or used real .350 tip Blueboards, no "made for" on them. Titleist uses "MF" shafts that differ in spec slightly as PTS, weight and torque differs somewhat. This guy is an absolute hoser. Don't let him blow smoke up your ass. The difference in the higher cost of shafts is the manufacturing process as in what type of material and what percentage of resin is used. All and I say ALL are seriously marked way the hell up over actual manufacturing cost. After the 1st video I'm afraid to watch the 2nd as I may vomit if I have to listen to another moron on this subject.

[LBlack14]

20 seconds in the 2nd guy is a knucklehead too.

[LBlack14]

That happens from time to time. In all the shafts I've pulled using my hydraulic puller, I've cracked 1 shaft in the clamp and it was an aftermarket shaft. NOT an off the rack. Look, I'm not saying they're not different as far as spec goes on SOME of them, but not like these clowns are. They are, for the most part, made using the same processes. There is also a difference between "wrapped" and "wound" shafts.

[spearq8]

I will tell you my experience which was very eye opening.  I bought a brand new Ping G20 with the stock shaft Stiff and 9.5 degree loft from Edwin Watts, the club arrived and I noticed a small hairline crack near the hosel.  After closer inspection it turns out that this was just  a small crack that was on the epoxy and not the club itself.  Anyway I decided to buy another identical one since I was thinking of sending the first one back.  Since the first one was playing well, I decided to keep it and use the second driver as a spare.  Last week was an important club tournament, and I decided that instead of putting new fresh grips on my first G20, I would just bring the brand new one.  I cannot tell you how shocked at how differently this "identical" club was performing.  My brand new 9.5 degree was going high like a 13 degree and ballooning up.  The kickpoint was so dramatically different that it was ridiculous.  I let our local pro try them both and he was just shaking his head and said that is why you should always get fitted with an after market shaft for your driver.  The first club had a lower and boring trajectory, but the new one was shooting super high.  I am definitely planning to re-shaft my driver and have it pured.  I never thought there is such a huge difference between identical clubs, but the quality control on the shafts is poor.  It must be all the pressure to sell the drivers cheap that manufacturers are cutting corners on stock shafts..

[moparman426]

Originally Posted by spearq8

It must be all the pressure to sell the drivers cheap that manufacturers are cutting corners on stock shafts..

The club manufacturers don't make the shafts.  The shaft manufacturers do.  The difference between your two clubs may possibly be attributed to the orientation of the shaft in the club.  Are the labels both face up?  If they are, they are probably just put in with no thought to orientation at all, but are installed for visual appeal.  The Rombax in my TM driver was installed correctly.  I can "twang" the shaft in any direction, and it returns back to a nice flat horizontal pattern.  The result of this places the label where it can't be seen in this case, almost under the shaft.  I bet your two won't, or at least one of them won't level out all too well.  Mine is a TP version though, so it has an upgraded shaft, but still not a full blown after market version.  Heads lofts aren't exact all the time either.