Square to the Arc (from Roy)

[roy2xeagle]

im 61 i play from the back(i mean back tees as far as i can get),,,im a 5(best) handicap 8 (worst)..depending on what day of the week it is..but pretty consistent.....Ive been using sq to the arc for 5 yrs now.....i finally learned what i was doing and became a better golfer.........For 4 of those years (8 or higher handicap),,i was back and forth between "rotating" and not rotating  the clubface.....meaning i felt more comfortable with square to the arc..but i would take a "lesson" and be told i couldnt play that way...when i finally decided what was best for me(sq to the arc) then i became much better..longer and straighter.....i play fg59 wilson staff blades(project x shafts)...2 wedges (cleveland 52 and 56)...a 13 degree 3 wood.....and a 8.5 taylormade xstiff diamana whiteboard shaft........when u really think about it the 'square to the arc" is much more simple(not as many variables or moving parts).....

[uttexas]

Please elaborate.  I've read about the square to square golf swing, but not square to arc.

Is there a recommended arc to be square to?  I'm guessing the clubface should be square (perpendicular to this arc)?

[roy2xeagle]

by the arc i mean swing plane..If you take the face of your golf club at address,it is most likely "square to your traget line...Well if u draw your swing plane arc back and up like a tilted hoola hoop u have your swing plane of course....Think of your right hand(if youre a righty) as the clubface facing the ball....It should face the ball at all times until it disappears behing your right shoulder...your hands DONOT ROTATE....Your hands (instead of rotating clubface toe up)...just cock back on themselves keeping the clubface "square" to the arc or swing plane...its called supination or pronation i forgot which....Nick Faldo used to use his right hand just to hit balls to get this feeling..most important is the right hand (clubface faces the ball).....some pros(and amateurs) will tell u that your clubface is shut at the top..I dont give a damn if its wrapped around your left ankle as long as its "square" at impact..just think  it "never leaves" the square position thru out the swing...u want more power ?..wait till u get a load of this.....good luck..im 61 and i can still hit it(at times 280)...most of the time 255-260 average...its a nice swing to learn to draw the ball and as we all know the older we get the "shorter" we get....i am still talking about golf here...

[iacas]

 

We discussed this in that thread.

I will also add this: it's virtually impossible NOT to roll the hands a little on the backswing, and every good player does. If they didn't the wrist cock would have the club hanging out over their heads.

[roy2xeagle]

no no no!!!..not true...no rotation at all..have it on film...right shoulder goes immediately around the body keeping the club on a perfectly  square to the arc plane....much easier than all that rotaion...how far to rotate ..then rotate back to square..thats one of the reasons the "conventional" swing is so damn complicated...its easy ..just take your right hand put it on the club facing the ball take the club back..if you try rotating youll never hit the ball...Nick faldo used to parctice this all the time....David leadbetter uysed to talk about "cranking the lawn mower with the right hand arm and shoulder......ive done both..i know which one works for me....

[iacas]

Originally Posted by roy2xeagle

no no no!!!..not true...no rotation at all..have it on film...right shoulder goes immediately around the body keeping the club on a perfectly  square to the arc plane....much easier than all that rotaion...how far to rotate ..then rotate back to square..thats one of the reasons the "conventional" swing is so damn complicated...its easy ..just take your right hand put it on the club facing the ball take the club back..if you try rotating youll never hit the ball...Nick faldo used to parctice this all the time....David leadbetter uysed to talk about "cranking the lawn mower with the right hand arm and shoulder......ive done both..i know which one works for me....

Show me a picture of your setup and the top of your backswing from down the line and face-on.

I think you might feel like there's no rotation, but it's there. And I'm the guy who agrees that square to the plane on the takeaway is a good thing and that "toe up" is open.

[Harmonious]

Certainly, in theory, maintaining the clubface square to the swing plane for the entire swing would be perfect.  However, the only way to do it would be with absolutely no wristcock.  The human body isn't set up that way.  So, unless you are blessed with superhuman wrists, there is no way to maintain a square clubface all the way up to a full backswing.  Maybe a half swing, but not a full swing that can generate enough speed for a 250 yard drive.

Unless, of course, you set up with your grip 90* weakened.   Kind of a Moe Norman thing?

[roy2xeagle]

you are forgetting that the wrist cock is not the convention where the right wrist cocks up..the right wrist cocks to the right at the same time the left wrists also cocks to the right..i forget if its called supination or pronation....but that is what precisely keeps the club from rotating because any wrist cocking upward would cause the club to rotate..i will have to go find my videos.....i will try to get them later this week....its actually very easy not to rotate...unless youve been doing it for years

[roy2xeagle]

think about it the wrist can cock 2 different ways....like youre curling hand weights(square to the arc)...or like youre washing windows(conventional)

[Harmonious]

I still can't see it, from purely a physical standpoint.  A video would really help.

[roy2xeagle]

ill have to get them..dont usually have them ready to show....just remember the forearms also play a roll in this they do not rotate either they dont have to...left arm comes straight across your body while the right shoulder and arm turn behind you while the wrists fold back on each other..they do not cock upwards..we still have lag and plenty of it coming down still facing the swing plane...there are a few pros that teach this swing..i found one online a while back i will see if i can locate him...vids and evrything

[Stretch]

I think I know what you're talking about. Sounds similar to what Joe Dante called the "backward break" in the takeaway?

http://www.golf-swing-magic.com/golf-backswing3.html

[Harmonious]

I checked out the website out of curiosity, just to see how that position is achieved at the top.  Well, it turns out that it isn't.  Here is what the website calls the "perfect position".

The clubhead is open 90* to the swingpath.  Not a bad postion, but certainly not square to the arc of the swing.

[talismand]

Originally Posted by Stretch

I think I know what you're talking about. Sounds similar to what Joe Dante called the "backward break" in the takeaway?

http://www.golf-swing-magic.com/golf-backswing3.html

That looks like it would be painful to maintain to the top of the backswing

[roy2xeagle]

Its actually a natural position...if you were tp play a piano  your wrist would have to break in that direction to get your fingers on the keyboard...not side to side like youre washing a window....more of a natural position to me then the conventional wrists cock

[roy2xeagle]

actually it is..at evry position the clubface is square..once the wrists hinge(back on each other) they never change until after impact...the body rotates taking the club up on the arc behind the shoulder..the clubface actually facing the sky which is still "square to the arc"

[canadianpro]

no wonder I can't play the piano

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by roy2xeagle

actually it is..at evry position the clubface is square..once the wrists hinge(back on each other) they never change until after impact...the body rotates taking the club up on the arc behind the shoulder..the clubface actually facing the sky which is still "square to the arc"

I'm assuming you are responding to my comment and picture at the top of the backswing.  (Check out the "quote" button at the bottom of each post). You better take another look at the picture. Either the artist got it completely wrong, but it looks to me that, at the top, the clubface and the back of the guy's hands are parallel to the swingpath.  In other words, 90* open.