My Swing (RossOliver)

[Phil McGleno]

Originally Posted by ChrisSP

Good stuff Erik! While that's probably not a theory I would subscribe to it might be just what RossOliver needs to get back on track with his ball-striking.

Are you saying that you want the back knee to remain as bent as it is at setup throughout the backswing? EriK was a bit short in his response but do you know what he meant by tilt to the left?

I don't buy into the idea that there are theories on how to make a good golf swing, and I'm leery of people who say that... His lower body movement can be cleaned up by his upper body movement. Do you also want people moving their heads off the golf ball, particularly if they're having trouble with their ballstriking?

[senorchipotle]

in my unprofessional opinion, RossOliver should 1. take care to keep his balance, and 2. keep the upper body rotating and not flip into impact. if he didn't do #2, it would have gone straight.

[ChrisSP]

I guess we have different definitions about the concept of "theory" when it comes to the golf swing. What I was trying to say is that I don't buy into the idea that there's only one way to make a good golf swing. What I do believe, however, is that a good golf swing is built from the ground up, not the other way around. You don't see very many good players with poor footwork and leg action. Will the back knee stay completely static throughout the back swing? Almost certainly not. But I think that's a good feeling for some people to try to have in terms of making a good coil, as well as quieting the lower body and establishing stability in the lower body, which will in turn support the upper body during the swing.

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

Are you saying that you want the back knee to remain as bent as it is at setup throughout the backswing? EriK was a bit short in his response but do you know what he meant by tilt to the left?

I don't buy into the idea that there are theories on how to make a good golf swing, and I'm leery of people who say that... His lower body movement can be cleaned up by his upper body movement. Do you also want people moving their heads off the golf ball, particularly if they're having trouble with their ballstriking?

[Phil McGleno]

Originally Posted by ChrisSP

What I was trying to say is that I don't buy into the idea that there's only one way to make a good golf swing. What I do believe, however, is that a good golf swing is built from the ground up, not the other way around. You don't see very many good players with poor footwork and leg action. Will the back knee stay completely static throughout the back swing? Almost certainly not. But I think that's a good feeling for some people to try to have in terms of making a good coil, as well as quieting the lower body and establishing stability in the lower body, which will in turn support the upper body during the swing.

There are certainly components that make a good golf swing. Look at my avatar. Look at the swings in the thread someone posted above about the right knee "straightening" in the backswing. All you've typed is a bunch of general terms like "supporting the upper body." That's great, but the game's longest hitters all tend towards turning their hips and straightening their knees. Sergio's hips move backwards in the backswing. Bubba, Phil, etc. turn their hips like crazy, as did Hogan and others before him and after him - Nicklaus, Palmer, etc.

I don't know how long you've been teaching, but I disagree wholeheartedly that it's a "good feeling" for anyone to work on if their goal is to get better. He might temporarily sway off the golf ball less, and thus strike the ball better, but he's also going to limit his shoulder turn, limit his ability to take his hands and arms where they need to go, and limit his power.

I'd fix this guy in five minutes. Tougher to do online than in person, but he could feel like he's moving his head down and forwards and his right hip up (and a little forward) and he'd be in pretty good shape right away.

P.S. Agree that you don't see many players with poor foot and leg work. Keeping the rear knee flexed is what I'd consider "poor foot and leg work."

Good luck Ross.

[RossOliver]

Thanks for all the replies - very helpful! Although I've read a bit on why you should straighten your rear leg, I've never really bought into that one... I find I swing worse if I forget to focus on keeping some right knee flex; my hip and shoulders end up turning a daft amount/out of sync and I feel slack. However, that is when I don't think about my right leg at all - I've never actively tried to straighten my read leg on the backswing - this strangely appears to restrict my hip turn somewhat... is that the intention?

I do feel as though my upper body stalls on the downswing, but I don't understand why - is it because I haven't coiled up correctly in the backswing? I always thought if you unwind your hips and clear them well enough then your upper body should follow... my upper and lower body seem to have minds of their own!

Phil, you say to feel like I move my head down and forwards and hip up and forward - by forward I take it you mean toward the target and not in the direction my head is pointing at address?

Thanks again,

-Ross

[iacas]

Originally Posted by RossOliver

Thanks for all the replies - very helpful! Although I've read a bit on why you should straighten your rear leg, I've never really bought into that one... I find I swing worse if I forget to focus on keeping some right knee flex; my hip and shoulders end up turning a daft amount/out of sync and I feel slack. However, that is when I don't think about my right leg at all - I've never actively tried to straighten my read leg on the backswing - this strangely appears to restrict my hip turn somewhat... is that the intention?

The right leg should straighten - lose some flex - a little during the backswing. The amount varies (my avatar was an exaggerated drill), and it shouldn't "lock out" straight. The right knee losing flex lets the hips turn on their inclined plane and lets the shoulders turn more.

"Keep some flex" is not the same as "keep the same flex."

And again, the knee work is not the problem. I wouldn't worry about your knees or leg work for a looooong time.

Originally Posted by RossOliver

Phil, you say to feel like I move my head down and forwards and hip up and forward - by forward I take it you mean toward the target and not in the direction my head is pointing at address?

I assume that's what he means, yes. Your head goes back and up right now. Feel it go down and forwards.

Your lower body stuff is not the problem right now. Your upper body swaying well off the golf ball is a problem.

Two of our students. Compare the impact positions to yours:

[RossOliver]

Thanks for taking the time to do an analysis like that - very helpful! I can see exactly what you mean now - I didn't realise I lifted my head like that on the backswing and shallowed my shoulder turn. You're right about hitting off the ground, very seldom make a decent strike at the minute - when I catch the driver with that swing though (the odd time I get a straight one) it has quite a bit of distance in it mind...

I have a pulled muscle at the minute so I'll take the weekend off and hopefully have a stab at the new backswing early next week and try and post a video.

Thanks for your time,

-Ross

[edit]

Just saw the two pictures of your students - the one on the right has his hips well forward at impact, which is something I would like to incorporate, however thrusting my hips forward like this tends to exacerbate two of my faults... it makes my weight stay backward (if my hips go forward my top half tips right and keeps me on my right side) and my shoulders don't unwind (my right shoulder goes directly down and toward my target instead of out and rotating). Do you have any tips to combat this? Cheers.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by RossOliver

Just saw the two pictures of your students - the one on the right has his hips well forward at impact, which is something I would like to incorporate, however thrusting my hips forward like this tends to exacerbate two of my faults... it makes my weight stay backward (if my hips go forward my top half tips right and keeps me on my right side) and my shoulders don't unwind (my right shoulder goes directly down and toward my target instead of out and rotating). Do you have any tips to combat this? Cheers.

Your hips can't get that far forward and your weight still be hanging back. Not unless your spine tilts back at like 60 degrees at impact - it'd have to be close to horizontal! :-)

If you set up with your upper body a little more vertical and not tilting back so much, then turn your shoulders in a circle (i.e. a centered pivot, not a translating pivot), then you'll be able to get the hips forward and thus the weight forward.

The head shouldn't ever really go forward (late into the follow-through I don't care so much).

Watch this, and realize that you need more of the extension and more of the side tilting.