Tiger -- Haney v. Foley

[Mr. Desmond]

For all you swing experts/instructors and those that are knowledgeable -- meaning a lot of people here - I will lead with this introduction.

I took lessons from senior Haney instructors for several years and there was quite an emphasis, besides a position at the top, on the rotation of and swinging the arms, the back of the left hand towards the target, and not much, if anything, on the arm-body connection. I remember them saying "Now swing you arms as fast as you can."

Foley's instruction, I believe he is more TGM with elements of S&T, is very different to me. I eventually took lessons from a TGM instructor and appreciated the arm-body connection and the importance of the lower body. Now I've studied the S&T book and introduced some elements of it into my game -- but I still have this Haney habit of the arms taking over -- it's almost as if I've got to say don't swing the arms to allow a good swing to occur. I've got to think about that front knee moving first to help bring the club down -- instead of trying to swing the arms -- at least that is the feeling I have for a successful swing (besides other elements).

I've heard Foley say there wasn't much, if anything, that made sense to him with Haney's swing and Tiger.

The question is: are these swing philosophies so far apart that Tiger is taking seemingly longer to adjust to Foley's instruction? Or, is it, as Haney said, and I paraphrase, During the last year we were together, Tiger's dedication slipped. (life got in the way - divorce, etc.) I've also heard over the years that Tiger is a nervous golfer - perfect on the range, but slips on the course.

But I was more interested in the question - are the swings so different that Tiger is having a more difficult time adjusting to what many believe are sounder, fundamental principles with some old "newer" elements introduced?

[Kieran123]

Tiger has more on his mind than he ever has.

He is under a lot of pressure to perform and be Americas 'golf hero' again, he's 35, injured, divorced and constantly scrutinized.

He has kids to look after, a huge range of younger players starting to make their mark on tour and is changing his entire swing

No wonder it is taking longer than expected by most.

Guy just needs a break IMO

[iacas]

Tiger's taken 18-24 months to ingrain swing changes in the past. He's been with Foley for barely six.

That's all I'll say on that.

Every golf swing involves using the arms. Some players, even in S&T, are told "get the arms down faster." Zeph can attest to that.

My biggest problem with Haney's method is that he rolled #3 really, really early, took the hands up above the plane like crazy, and then Tiger had to try to time "dropping" them back to on plane. Too much and he was well under the plane and stuck.

[Deryck Griffith]

The over and under loopy loop instruction that Haney teaches is exactly what he tried with Ray Romano and we all know how that worked out.

The timing required to execute such a motion is only accomplished by the best athletes whom are talented to being with.  Of course, Tiger being the athlete he is and other young strapping athletes are able to make it work.  The everyday player not so much...

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith

The over and under loopy loop instruction that Haney teaches is exactly what he tried with Ray Romano and we all know how that worked out.

The timing required to execute such a motion is only accomplished by the best athletes whom are talented to being with.  Of course, Tiger being the athlete he is and other young strapping athletes are able to make it work.  The everyday player not so much...

Yes, the Haney rotation of the arms on the way back, and down will cause the loop and  get the club stuck.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by iacas

Tiger's taken 18-24 months to ingrain swing changes in the past. He's been with Foley for barely six.

That's all I'll say on that.

Every golf swing involves using the arms. Some players, even in S&T, are told "get the arms down faster." Zeph can attest to that.

My biggest problem with Haney's method is that he rolled #3 really, really early, took the hands up above the plane like crazy, and then Tiger had to try to time "dropping" them back to on plane. Too much and he was well under the plane and stuck.

I am sure all of what you said is correct ... if I knew #3.

I guess you've got to be around Haney's people to appreciate my point. Looking at the Bay Hill video of Tiger's swing, that position at the top, I think, is one that Haney likes -- now, how Tiger got there is entirely different - but the space between the arms - the triangle formed - is what Haney's people are after - which surprised me -- I thought Tiger's arms would be  deeper.

[bkoguy07]

When we say haney emphasizes a looping motion - are we speaking about it in such a manner as Furyks? Or different?  Furyk brings the club straight back or over plane and loops back down into position and on plane, correct?

Similar to furyk just not as exaggerated?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

I am sure all of what you said is correct ... if I knew #3.

Power accumulator #3. Rolling the wrists, basically.

Originally Posted by bkoguy07

When we say haney emphasizes a looping motion - are we speaking about it in such a manner as Furyks? Or different?  Furyk brings the club straight back or over plane and loops back down into position and on plane, correct?

Kinda.

Haney's was to roll the clubface, lift the hands and arms above the plane, then "drop them" (usually resulting in getting well under plane) in transition. So the "loop" was out and up, then down and in.